Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links
DITD Logo

Learn about the Davidson Academy’s online campus for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S.

The Davidson Institute for Talent Development is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Davidson Fellows Scholarship
  • Davidson Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute
  • DITD FaceBook   DITD Twitter   DITD YouTube
    The Davidson Institute is on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube!

    How gifted-friendly is
    your state?

    Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update

    Who's Online
    0 registered (), 0 Guests and 33 Spiders online.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    Gxtd, NYC2011, varsha dongre, Caril, Happy Dolphin
    10643 Registered Users
    November
    Su M Tu W Th F Sa
    1 2
    3 4 5 6 7 8 9
    10 11 12 13 14 15 16
    17 18 19 20 21 22 23
    24 25 26 27 28 29 30
    Page 4 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >
    Topic Options
    #246143 - 10/01/19 03:12 PM Re: Harvard admissions lawsuit [Re: Bostonian]
    Bostonian Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2588
    Loc: MA
    Harvard Admissions Process Does Not Discriminate Against Asian-Americans, Judge Rules
    By Anemona Hartocollis
    New York Times
    Oct. 1, 2019

    A federal judge on Tuesday rejected claims that Harvard had intentionally discriminated against Asian-Americans applicants, in a closely watched case that had presented one of the biggest legal challenges to affirmative action in years.

    The challenge came from a group hoping to overturn a longstanding Supreme Court precedent that allows race to be considered as one factor among many in the admissions process, but prohibits universities from using racial quotas. The group argued that Harvard’s practices had benefited black and Hispanic students at the expense of another minority group, in a strategic reversal of past affirmative action lawsuits in which the plaintiffs denounced a perceived unfairness to white students.

    The judge, Allison Burroughs of Federal District Court for the District of Massachusetts, rejected the argument that Harvard was using affirmative action as a weapon against some races and a boon to others, and said that the university met the strict constitutional standard for considering race in its admissions process.

    In her decision, Judge Burroughs defended the benefits of diversity, and said that while the time might come when it would be possible to look beyond race in college admissions, that time was not yet here.

    “The rich diversity at Harvard and other colleges and universities and the benefits that flow from that diversity,” she added, “will foster the tolerance, acceptance and understanding that will ultimately make race conscious admissions obsolete.”

    ...

    Top
    #246144 - 10/01/19 05:25 PM Re: Harvard admissions lawsuit [Re: Bostonian]
    philly103 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/02/17
    Posts: 66
    The ruling was legally inevitable, I didn't think there was anything in the facts presented that would have justified ruling against Harvard at this level.

    Additionally, those additional papers posted here after the fact make abundantly clear that the real issue is the Legacy, Athlete, Dean's List, Children of Faculty admits who skew the admissions criteria more significantly than the lower scored under-represented minorities (URMs).

    But everyone knows the endgame is SCOTUS so this isn't supremely important (pun intended).

    Top
    #246146 - 10/02/19 02:44 AM Re: Harvard admissions lawsuit [Re: spaghetti]
    puffin Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/11/12
    Posts: 2012
    Originally Posted By: spaghetti
    If you are in a horribly underfunded school district with very poor education and the local parochial school offers a stellar education, is that unfair? Should they be required to admit based on academic merit vs membership in the population that founded the school?

    If a bunch of wealthy people get together and develop a school for their gifted kids--- which actually happened locally, do they have to as a private school, offer equal access to admissions?

    And if those schools are colleges. If an Ivy is a bunch of rich people who are working together to pay for their kids to get a certain education, do they have to use certain criteria?

    Or in all three cases, are they prohibited from discrimination based on a protected class?

    Just wondering where the lines and the laws fall.


    If they are operating as a non profit with associated tax breaks things are a bit different than if they are a private company paying taxes. It is tricky and I don't know the solution. I do live in a country with no private universities and not many private schools which may be one solution. Many of our universities also have endowments or own properties but they are state run and pretty much accept anyone for the first year after which you have to pass at varying levels depending on degree. A C will get you into second year science or arts but selective courses such and medicine and vet will require an A grade for example.

    Top
    #246147 - 10/02/19 03:27 AM Re: Harvard admissions lawsuit [Re: Bostonian]
    Wren Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1464
    Legacy helps build the endowment. Historical experience supports that. Deans list includes staff children and people like YoYoMa, who went to Harvard. How many schools don't help staff kids? I know the guy who heads up lung transplant at Columbia Pres and, despite being a wealthy surgeon, his kid got 50% off tuition at Columbia. And athletics are part of campus life. Harvard football is a big thing. The GAME is as big for many alumni as thanksgiving. But these are all less than 20% of admits. So the issue is that if you are scrambling for the remaining 80% is how do you stand out if you just have great scores? I think that is the whole point. How do you stand out?

    Top
    #246148 - 10/02/19 04:14 AM Re: Harvard admissions lawsuit [Re: Wren]
    philly103 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/02/17
    Posts: 66
    Originally Posted By: Wren
    Legacy helps build the endowment. Historical experience supports that. Deans list includes staff children and people like YoYoMa, who went to Harvard. How many schools don't help staff kids? I know the guy who heads up lung transplant at Columbia Pres and, despite being a wealthy surgeon, his kid got 50% off tuition at Columbia. And athletics are part of campus life. Harvard football is a big thing. The GAME is as big for many alumni as thanksgiving. But these are all less than 20% of admits. So the issue is that if you are scrambling for the remaining 80% is how do you stand out if you just have great scores? I think that is the whole point. How do you stand out?

    My read of the judicial opinion says that getting a 1 or 2 in 3 of Harvard's 4 ratings categories results in something like a 70% admissions rate. While getting a 1 in a single criteria is less than a 10% chance.

    Also, just for the data side of things - athletes, legacies, donors kids, faculty kids account for 30% of the admittees (and have a 40+% admissions rate). In addition, Harvard sets aside ~10% of the seats for kids from 19 specific schools (3% come from 2 private schools). Kids from those schools aren't really competing against the general pool either, they're really competing against each other for their schools specific Harvard allocation. Of course, I'm sure there's significant overlap between the ALDC group and the attendees of these private schools.

    So, the answer to how one stands out appears to be exceptionalism in multiple areas, as opposed to exceptionalism is in just one. The exception being athletics where north of 85% of recruited athletes are admitted.

    Top
    #246149 - 10/02/19 05:45 AM Re: Harvard admissions lawsuit [Re: philly103]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4139
    Originally Posted By: philly103
    ... the endgame is SCOTUS ...
    For everyone who values SCOTUS, and its rulings on this case and others, according to the US Constitution and Bill of Rights... cases which have the ability to impact opportunities available to our gifted kids and all kids... please pay careful attention to UN 2030 Agenda and steps being taken toward globalization, with collateral damage of dissolving the sovereignty of the US as a nation, along with its Constitution and Bill of Rights. (The US Constitution is considered to be the oldest Constitution still being used today.)

    Top
    #246151 - 10/02/19 06:15 AM Re: Harvard admissions lawsuit [Re: indigo]
    Alannc44 Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 03/30/18
    Posts: 22
    Originally Posted By: indigo
    [quote=philly103]... please pay careful attention to UN 2030 Agenda and steps being taken toward globalization, with collateral damage of dissolving the sovereignty of the US as a nation, along with its Constitution and Bill of Rights. (The US Constitution is considered to be the oldest Constitution still being used today.)


    I'll never understand this irrational fear of The UN. Politics. Ugh. If anything, The US drives the desire for equality for all and probably influences The UN more than it us. Yes, we over compensate sometimes.

    Top
    #246156 - 10/02/19 08:29 AM Re: Harvard admissions lawsuit [Re: Bostonian]
    JudAU Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 08/28/18
    Posts: 19
    I don’t know if I mentioned this upthread but DH went to Harvard and has many close friends who have children applying. He also participates in multiple online groups. It has been interesting. The legacy boost is hilariously overblown unless you are also donating, conservatively a few million dollars and have done so multiple times previously, and has a kid who could get in independently. Harvard does not need small donors, or to please alumni, or unqualified candidates at any donation level. Most people think that it is actually disadvantage.

    We known many supremely qualified kids who haven’t gotten in and one who did. He is a pretty typical Harvard admit, double legacy from both parents, and a grandparent, genius IQ, perfect ACT, perfect SAT, excellent math count scores, and has two patents already. His parents gave consistent $1,000 every year since graduation and nothing else. He was wait listed and eventually got in. But no one else we know.

    Top
    #246157 - 10/02/19 09:59 AM Re: Harvard admissions lawsuit [Re: JudAU]
    Val Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/01/07
    Posts: 3285
    Loc: California
    Originally Posted By: JudAU
    I don’t know if I mentioned this upthread but DH went to Harvard and has many close friends who have children applying. He also participates in multiple online groups. It has been interesting. The legacy boost is hilariously overblown ...


    An article from the Harvard Crimson says that legacy admissions are five times as high as non-legacy admits: Harvard Crimson

    Top
    #246158 - 10/02/19 11:27 AM Re: Harvard admissions lawsuit [Re: Val]
    philly103 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/02/17
    Posts: 66
    Originally Posted By: Val

    An article from the Harvard Crimson says that legacy admissions are five times as high as non-legacy admits: Harvard Crimson


    That's probably the best thing to come out of this lawsuit. The amount of raw data that supports some old assumptions and discredits others. We should all have a better grasp of what it takes for our kids to gain admission. Where to devote our efforts, at what point do those efforts cross into "desired" status and where to stop spending unnecessary effort.

    Speaking just for myself and my child - playing a musical instrument has moved down the list, playing the right sports has moved up - squash, lacrosse, water polo, crew, etc.

    Top
    Page 4 of 6 < 1 2 3 4 5 6 >


    Moderator:  M-Moderator 
    Recent Posts
    John Hopkins CTY Program
    by JudAU
    Yesterday at 08:27 PM
    The ultimate brag thread
    by JudAU
    Yesterday at 07:32 PM
    Any doctors offer SB-5 test
    by gam3
    Yesterday at 11:58 AM
    Fun math problems for kids
    by cmguy
    Yesterday at 10:52 AM
    How Expected Family Contribution is calculated
    by nicoledad
    11/18/19 10:22 AM
    Davidson Institute Twitter