Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Grouping with older sibling?

My son started K this fall. The gifted support teacher at his school has been in contact over the past couple of days. She has suggested skipping him into first grade, but we are reluctant to do a full grade acceleration right now for social/emotional reasons. Instead, we may be looking at single subject acceleration in math. The school is still evaluating him, but second grade is likely to be the best placement. The potential problem is that he has a sister in 2nd grade. Various folks have suggested to us that it may be damaging to her to have her little brother in the same grade level, even for one subject. I know the IAS takes this into account, as well.

I asked my daughter how she would feel if her brother came up to her classroom for math. She was surprised, but said that she would really like that. Our kids are close and they love being able to see each other at recess, lunch, after school, etc. They're also great about supporting each other and cheering each other on. However, I know my daughter does sometimes feel threatened by her brother's greater prowess at things like board games. So I'm afraid that she might not like having him in class as much as she thinks she would. I don't think he would surpass her in math (she's good at it too), but it's certainly possible.

Given her positive reaction, would you consider having them in the same class? Does anyone have experience with having a younger sibling accelerated into the older one's class, either for a whole grade or single subject?

My oldest two kids are 14 months apart, so DS started kindergarten one year after DD. They are both exceptionally gifted. We started subject acceleration for him in second grade, and grouped him with the highest group of third graders (which included DD). They got along and pushed each other.

At the end of that year, we began considering acceleration for several reasons. Before we even mentioned it to him, I talked to her about it and she was ecstatic about the possibility. So he skipped third grade.

They were in the same class last year in fourth, and again this year in fifth. They are best friends, incredibly goofy, and both so far beyond most of their peers academically that it's really nice that they have each other.

She's stronger in ELA. He's stronger in math (and has significant challenges with writing that make him 2E). There are moments of competition when one of them gets frustrated about "not being as smart," but those are honestly few and far between. And I think they would happen even in separate grades.

So, for us, I really think it was the right choice. Your kids sound similar, but I do have to admit that I would be more hesitant about the two-year difference than our one-year-difference. I think that might be harder for the older sibling emotionally. You know your kids best though.

Just going to add that the advice to refuse a student an otherwise appropriate grade-level placement out of concern for a sibling is the one objection which many people express about the otherwise wonderful IAS. See comment on Hoagies Gifted Education Page regarding this, here.

Thanks for all the responses. It's good to hear that it CAN work well to have siblings together like this. I agree that it's inappropriate to automatically rule out accelerating a younger sibling. Sibling relationships differ greatly. My daughter actually seemed excited about getting to spend more time with her brother at school, and kind of excited/proud that "he must be a very talented Kindergartener" (as she put it - all I said was that he already knew the math they were teaching in K). I *do* think, however, that it's important to consider carefully the well-being of both children in making a decision like this. If my kids didn't have such a positive and supportive relationship, I'd be much more leery.

However, one factor that has occurred to me since I posted is that my daughter could be especially threatened if my son actually does surpass her in math, because he has already surpassed her in reading (she has had some difficulty learning to read, while he taught himself at 3). She knows that, and she handles it OK, but she thinks of math as her strong suit. I imagine it could be very difficult for her if she ends up behind little brother in both. On the other hand, maybe they will push each other a bit in a positive way.

Oh well. With any luck, I'm overestimating him and he'll end up placed in first! That would make things easier and also pave the way for a full grade skip next year, since he'd have a chance to get to know his new classmates.

Absolutely!

It is healthy, IMO, for children (and their families) to acknowledge varying degrees of strength in any particular area.

It is unhealthy, IMO, for one child to be brought up being taught that the elder sister is "she who I am not allowed to surpass" or "she who I must take a back seat to." This creates an artificial ceiling for the younger sibling. This also seems to imply that the family will not be able to function if the younger sibling were to excel in areas not designated as "ok" by the family and/or the elder sibling.

If your younger child surpasses your elder child in sports/athletics, or in the arts, or in leadership, would this be a problem for your family?

There can be younger Olympians winning gold, while older Olympians earn silver, bronze, or nothing but the experience of having competed.

There are older people with younger team leaders/bosses/managers/supervisors.

Failing to acknowledge talent in younger people out of fear of older persons feeling threatened or developing hurt feelings may actually encourage older persons to complain of hurt feelings in order to hold others back. Very unhealthy, IMO.

Young people may need to be coached through their feelings of insecurity, jealousy, etc in order to develop a healthy sense of self which is not dependent solely (or in large part) on out-performing younger siblings.

When considering carefully the well-being of both children in making a decision like this, please consider that both children may be more emotionally healthy, resilient, strong, secure, and confident throughout the years if they sense your support for fully developing their gifts and talents rather than realizing that they are being manipulated into predetermined roles or performance positions relative to one another. Such manipulation works against each child developing "internal locus of control" and taking responsibility for their decisions/actions/inactions. The elder child may grow up feeling "entitled" and the younger may develop a pattern of severe underachievement.

Families are a microcosm of society. I believe it is healthier to raise children who embrace reality rather than embracing denial.

My youngest two are two years apart (grades 5 and 7) and the youngest is now 2 years ahead of the middle in math (the middle is in Alg 1 in public school, the youngest in Alg 2 in an extra weekend class). It's a huge source of misery to the middle one, but we just didn't feel like we could hold the youngest back to spare his feelings, since it's an area of passion for the youngest and just boring and uninteresting for the middle. We have a lot of conversations with middle about how people have different interests, what happens when somebody puts hours and hours into a pursuit that they love, his own particular strengths and talents and interests, drawbacks to being overly specialized, etc. A lot of conversations!

Our 2 girls are 14 months apart. I have mixed feelings about the fact that DD13 moved into DD14's grade several years ago. The positives? DD13 left a toxic 4th grade and moved into a 5th grade that offered her more academic options. She was challenged - for a while. The negatives: Sometimes kids ask DD14, "Is your sister really smart?" and insinuate that DD14 is not. Socially it's been hard. Party invitations, sleepovers, get tricky. Your kids are brother and sister so it may not be part of the equation. Emotionally - DD14 feels "stupid" although she actually gets the better grades. She is hard working and studious and does not understand that those traits may get her further along than her younger sister who doesn't study a bit.

Perhaps other parents have figured out how to make this work more smoothly. We read posts on the forums and other gifted websites. We make sure each girl has her own clubs and electives. Long ago DD14's kindergarten teacher asked us if we were interested in a grade skip for DD. We didn't even entertain the notion as at that time we were pretty clueless about acceleration. However, DD14 seemed absolutely happy with her school situation, and DD13 just screamed unhappiness and misery.

As a side note, DD13 could easily move up another grade as she still slides by without an effort. That would be horrific for DD14. We would never make that decision. It could work for some families, I suppose.

PS - I just read Indigo's post about not allowing the younger one's ability to be held back out of concern for the older sibling's feelings. We made the best decision we could at the time and still do so even today. It's really really tough to figure out what is best for a family.

Wow, jckdw and greenlotus, those do sound like tricky situations. I'm sure it takes a lot more deliberate parenting around sibling issues that for families that don't have these kinds of accelerations to cope with as well!

Have your older children been tested for giftedness? I'm thinking we may test my daughter. I'm not sure she's gifted, but she's certainly very bright, and at times it could be helpful to discuss that with her if there is any sign of her thinking she's not very smart because of (her own or her classmates') comparisons to her little brother. Plus, if she did turn out to be gifted, then she too would get some kind of accommodations from the school.

The middle one is in the same two-years-accelerated gifted track as the younger one. I think it does give him comfort that there is some outside confirmation of his intelligence, but the classes themselves are kind of problematic because he's definitely in the lower half or even quarter of his classes (except math), so he also has all his classmates to compare himself negatively to. (He has really obvious slow processing speed -- like, if anyone didn't believe it was a thing, they could just spend 5 minutes with him! We talk a lot about that too!)