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    #243763 09/06/18 03:08 AM
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    Hello all. We have successfully made it to high school with our girls, one DYS, one untested, but we know at least MG. We are now in a small private school, and it turns out they give the PSAT in 9th, 10th, and 11th. From the sources I have found it is considered advantageous to do some prep work for the PSAT as the 11th grade test is used to determine National Merit Scholarships. Correct? So do we view the PSAT 9th and 10th tests as part of that prep work and not worry so much about them? Our girls have already taken the SAT and previous to that, the Explore test via Duke Tip so they have some experience with testing.

    Next question - DD13 took the previous tests without accommodations, and I want those in place before this upcoming test period. How long does it take to get those set up with the College Board? DD already has these accommodations set in her 504.

    Anything else I need to be aware of?

    greenlotus #243764 09/06/18 04:10 AM
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    Before you get too invested, I would seriously consider whether the NMF scholarship is something your kids would use- it can be a great deal, but only if your kids decide to attend specific schools; many schools ignore it completely. I don’t know, but in the end I felt it didn’t seem to add much to our DDs application, as many (?most) kids applying to the same schools had similar scores.

    If your girls have already taken the SAT, then you already have information about how they do with this format (though the PSAT format is somewhat different, our kids didn’t find the differences to be significant).

    So I guess I would use those data points to guide you in how much prep you want/expect them to do. Our kids (both untested) luckily do standardized tests very well- both easily cleared the benchmark for NMF taking the PSAT cold, without having done the SAT or ACT. (and one went in with the wrong calculator, so did the math without it, the other had a huge nosebleed and almost didn’t make it to the test center on time...). But we kind of expected them to have an easy time, and our kids abhor test prep, so we just went with that.

    If you know your kids have areas that need work, you could consider it, but you have several years before the 11th grade test, and personally I think that just taking the PSAT twice beforehand, as your girls would be doing, should be more than adequate (unless they have test-taking challenges).

    Regarding accommodations, we don’t have experience with this, but I think there are several past threads that address this issue. If I remember correctly, it can be a difficult thing to achieve, and scan take a while.

    Good luck!

    greenlotus #243773 09/06/18 09:37 AM
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    The PSAT 9 and 10 mean nothing. The PSAT/NMSQT can be s big deal depending on you situation. Daughter had a friend who got $200,000 to go to Alabama. It pays for everything. She was a semi finalist and from Illinois. My daughter is taking this year. The thing she learned is much of the math on their is learned from junior high and much she forgot about. I think s little refresher might of helped. I agree for many it means nothing but for some it’s a big deal

    nicoledad #243785 09/07/18 10:21 AM
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    I'm not familiar with the PSAT-8 etc, so I'm not sure if taking it provides worthwhile prep for the PSAT taken for NMSF qualifying. Our school district lets sophomores take the qualifying PSAT as a practice run in sophomore year if students want prep, but my perspective on that (which is extremely limited to a very small sample lol!) was that it didn't really change the outcome of who landed where in terms of top percentiles - the kids who were going to score in the 98th-99th percentiles scored there, whether or not they took the practice test.

    Originally Posted by nicoledad
    The PSAT/NMSQT can be s big deal depending on you situation. Daughter had a friend who got $200,000 to go to Alabama. It pays for everything. She was a semi finalist and from Illinois.

    A semi-finalist doesn't actually receive a National Merit Scholarship... but scoring well does get your child on a lot of lists to receive information from colleges who will be excited to have your child apply, and that in turn can lead to a potentially large scholarship etc. Our ds was a NM finalist but few of the colleges he was interested in attending actually offered actual NM scholarships, and the ones that did had highly competitive admissions with all-around high PSAT and SAT scores as well as great GPAs - so in order to stand out an applicant needed more of something unique and different. My ds ended up attending a school that doesn't support NM scholarships but did send an auto-invite to apply when they received his PSAT scores... there were several invitations like that, where a student was given opportunities to apply without going through letters of recommendation etc unless they wanted to include additional info. DS got a great scholarship to a great college that he was one of his top choices so all an all-around win. On the flip side, I think the same would have happened with his SAT scores if he'd never taken the PSAT.

    Re test prep for college, I'd take advantage of anything you can get at no cost through school if your girls want to do the prep, but if you're paying for prep or if your girls have limited time or patience for test prep, I'd focus on either SAT or ACT - those are tests you can improve scores on through prep courses. My ds wasn't interested in taking the PSAT test as practice as a sophomore and he still scored high enough to. e a finalist. I have a junior again this year who is very likely not to score high enough for NM, but we are having her take the test simply as practice for sitting through a standardized test in the same environment she'll have to take the SAT or ACT in later this year - not because exposure to the actual test will help with SAT but because she gets anxious when testing and for kids who have worries about time or performance etc that are large enough to impact their performance, practice in a similar environment *might* be helpful in learning how to cope with anxiety when testing (I included "might" in quotes because I'm sure there are a lot of kids who might just find that practicing would make them more anxious... our dd feels the practice will be helpful for her to learn how to manage her test stress... even though she's already worried about the test).

    Re College Board accommodations - my recommendation is apply for them asap. CB has a system set up to allow schools to apply for students who have IEP/504 accommodations... so the first thing you should do is see if your school will apply for your dd. In our case, our school refused to apply for our ds (even though he had a 504 and a clear record of diagnosis, need and prior use of accommodations). We applied independently and he received each of the accommodations we requested, but we were very thorough in being sure we had read and understood everything the CB was looking for in making the request. If you get into the process and have any questions about how we approached our request, feel free to pm me. FWIW, having gone through the process to apply for CB accommodations and having received them helped make applying for accommodations in college easy.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

    eta - the reason I suggested applying for CB accommodations asap isn't that it takes a long time for the CB to determine if a student is eligible, but to give yourself time to appeal if the initial decision is a "no".

    Last edited by polarbear; 09/07/18 10:22 AM.
    greenlotus #243787 09/08/18 02:29 PM
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    Taking the PSAT in 9th and 10th helps to prep for the PSAT in 11th and the SAT. My youngest is in 9th, so she'll be doing the silly PSAT 8/9 this year. I understood the old PSAT & SAT that my older two took - I just don't get why you should take a baby version of the PSAT instead of the real thing, but that is a rant for another day.

    I think that the PSAT in 9th and 10th helped my middle kid hit the needed NM score in 11th grade. She didn't do much prep besides the PSAT, so just being familiar with the test helped.

    In the end, NMSF/NMF didn't help her, but she knows that she could have chosen a college that would have been full tuition (or more) given the NMF status. It isn't the NMSC scholarship of $2,500 that makes the big impact, it is the schools that will give you tuition or more. Alabama has been mentioned, and a recent addition are some of the Florida schools. Their full ride NMF offers used to be just for in-state, but now they are offered to out-of-state students too.

    Middle kid received a full tuition scholarship (not NMF related) to another school, but we asked her to apply somewhere where she knew she would get a large merit offer and would be happy to attend. Getting the needed NM score can assure your kid that they'll have some options for good merit.

    One thing to remember is that the PSAT cutoff score varies by state - so it may be easy or not-so-easy to hit depending upon your location.

    greenlotus #243789 09/09/18 04:21 AM
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    DD is in 9th grade. But needs a standardized test score for application to a program next year. We are in Toronto and it is very difficult to do the PSAT/NMSQT, unless it is in your school . Her school only gives it to 11th graders, doesn't have extra tests. Though the head of academics is trying. The test is Oct 10th. A consulting company suggested she just do the SAT in Dec. What is the big difference between the SAT and PSAT/NMSQT? The consultant said it was pretty much the same.

    greenlotus #243793 09/09/18 04:45 AM
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    There is not a big difference between the PSAT and SAT as far as the questions and test format, though the PSAT is a shorter test. The big difference is that once you hit 9th grade, the SAT scores stay on your College Board record, so if a college requests you send all scores, they see your 9th grade score (which is likely to be lower than an 11th grade score).

    You say you are in Toronto. Is your child a Canadian citizen or a US citizen? For NM purposes, you need to be a US citizen or a permanent resident of the US. You can be living abroad, take the PSAT and qualify for NM, but only if you meet the above qualifications. And those living outside the US typically must meet the highest qualifying cutoff score.

    NotSoGifted #243797 09/09/18 06:53 AM
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    Originally Posted by NotSoGifted
    And those living outside the US typically must meet the highest qualifying cutoff score.

    Hmmm, we are currently living outside the US but are American citizens. So our girls have to meet higher cutoff scores? How does this work?

    polarbear #243798 09/09/18 07:15 AM
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    Originally Posted by polarbear
    Re College Board accommodations - my recommendation is apply for them asap. CB has a system set up to allow schools to apply for students who have IEP/504 accommodations... so the first thing you should do is see if your school will apply for your dd.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

    eta - the reason I suggested applying for CB accommodations asap isn't that it takes a long time for the CB to determine if a student is eligible, but to give yourself time to appeal if the initial decision is a "no".

    The individual who is setting up testing is going to email the College Board tomorrow about accommodations. He emailed me something from the CB that states they do not review requests for the PSAT 8/9 but do so on the other tests. Since this test is given in September it may mean my husband and I have to request accommodations next year since having the school do so won't be possible due to summer break. Thank you, Polar Bear for all your help.

    greenlotus #243799 09/09/18 07:26 AM
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    Each state has different cutoffs, which can change from year to year. Basically, I think the goal is to take a proportional number of kids from each state, which means if you are from, say, NJ or California, you have much more competition than if you are from a lower-performing/less populous state. Kids who are outside the US, or who are boarding school students, are not included in specific states. The international students have to clear the highest state cutoff; I can’t remember the rule for boarding students, but I am pretty sure they are also held to a higher cutoff (but it might be regional, not sure).

    There is a lot of informed discussion about NM on the Compass Prep blog by Art Sawyer; you can ask questions and he is very good about providing specifics when he can.

    https://www.compassprep.com/national-merit-semifinalist-cutoffs/


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