Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Newly Diagnosed, looking for insight

Yesterday found out my son has ADHD & ODD w/ anger issues. He tested in the gifted range with an IQ of 131 with a 149 in fluid reasoning. His Processing speed was 46 points lower than his fluid reasoning which the therapist said is not normal and likely due to the ADHD. Shockingly, he tested at the 11th grade level in math (he just finished third grade with a C- in math). We knew he was smart & has behavior issues but we are honestly shocked. The math blows my mind. Just looking for anyone out there that might have "been there". I feel alone.

If the math consists of a lot of rote exercise, then that's not a surprising outcome. In fact if he's that good at math he may know exactly how many problems to skip and still pass. Once a gifted person masters something, they have little patience for repetition. So it might be they just won't do the work, or they intentionally do it wrong. The gifted also have a quirky sense of humor, so there could even be some sort of joke embedded in the rebellion.

I would make sure that the ODD is not a misdiagnosis given the IQ. Gifted people can be pretty unruly, especially if not in the right environment. As an adult I keep going through periods where I think, maybe I'm not gifted, maybe I have ADHD, or ASD, or... lots of things. What I've learned is that the symptoms of giftedness overlap a lot with more common diagnoses.

I'm speaking from a place not of professional knowledge, but personal knowledge. I'm gifted+LD. At least that's what the paperwork says. Other people will be along who have great professional knowledge.

Of course, me being me, I like to get answers from a book. Most of my reading has been focused on the adult experience lately, but these might be helpful. I haven't read them personally, but they're on my to read list possibly--my daughter isn't quite 2.

Misdiagnosis and Dual Diagnoses of Gifted Children and Adults

Emotional Intensity in Gifted Students: Helping Kids Cope with Explosive Feelings

You're not alone.

I assume that the 11th grade math score you mentioned is a grade equivalent (GE). This means that his achievement is the same as that of an 11th grader at the 50th percentile. This sort of score is actually fairly typical for gifted kids at your son's age, especially if they have unlimited time. A GE of 11.9 is essentially mastery of 4th or 5th grade math.

Actually, grade equivalent means that her son scored the same as an 11th grader did in his grade level maths. It does not mean that her son is at an 11th grade level in maths.

Both of you have elements of correctness. It depends on the instrument. If it was an individually-administered achievement instrument like the KTEA, WIAT, or WJ, then Kai's explanation is essentially accurate. It means that he obtained the same raw score on this particular test that the 50th percentile of students of that grade equivalent did in the standardization sample. But remember that those types of tests are designed to order students against their age-peers, not to determine if they have mastery of all topics expected at a certain grade or age.

If it was a grade-level measure, like the ITBS, ERB, or SAT-10, or a computer-adaptive test with a low ceiling, like the MAP K-2 or 2-5, then Archie is closer to correct. It's the same concept, but with an even lower cap on item complexity.

Either way, though, the principal point is correct: grade equivalents very rarely mean that the student actually is prepared for instruction at that grade level (with the possible exception of criterion-referenced tests, which are not typically administered in this situation).

And other reasons a math-gifted student might obtain low grades in math include mind-numbing boredom. Drastically inappropriate instructional level can be very challenging for young children to manage, or even to identify accurately. Some develop perceptions of themselves as being "bad at" a subject because it's so far beneath their instructional level that they struggle to find it intellectually or attentionally engaging (my own story, early on, before an intervention by my parents). Others take it a step further, and perceive -themselves- as being bad.

I would likewise be conservative about the ODD (I'd view it as provisional only), as, between extreme instructional mismatch and weaknesses in self-regulation that accompany ADHD, what's currently perceived by adults as oppositional may resolve at least in part if his intellectual needs begin to be met. He would not be the first HG+ primary-age student to present with challenging behaviors principally because of an inappropriate instructional environment.

Hi all, thanks so much for your replies! It just helps to know there are people out there who know about this.

I don't know what type of achievement test he took and didn't think to ask. I do know it was a single administrator (one on one). We have to wait 3 weeks for the full report and will know more then.

He also told us my son had a Beery Tests of Visual Motor Coordination that was SS=88 Low Average Range. I have no idea what that means. This is new to me.

I have read on a university site (I can't​ remember what it was but had 'alpha' in its title) and they explained that the WIAT is the case as I explained it, which is the test I assume is being used here along with the WISC V. I shall try to find the link.

Perhaps I am not precisely understanding your explanation, Archie.

Regardless, the grade equivalents on the WIAT do mean that the student obtained the same raw score on the measure that the median (in this case) 11th grade, 9th month (nearly grade 12, IOW) student did on the same subtest in the standardization sample. As the test includes tasks of skill level roughly prekindergarten through high school (though he probably was able to skip over the easiest items), it is highly likely that a score at this student's reported performance level would have included correct answers on tasks above the third grade level. I can say this with a high degree of confidence, as I have administered and interpreted this instrument myself hundreds of times. In any case, the bottom line remains that using a grade equivalent is not recommended for meaningful interpretation of this kind of test.

From your description, I assume the website you reference is Ron Dumont's FDU page.

His website (with John Willis, also a major figure in the field) www.myschoolpsychology.com is an excellent source of information on assessment and many other topics in psychology. There he links to Pearson's official statement on age/grade equivalents, adhered to by all reputable assessment professionals:
https://www.pearsonclinical.com/lan...oblems-of-age-and-grade-equivalents.html

I should underline that I am not remotely downplaying the OP's child's mathematical gifts. Merely affirming that accurately determining instructional placement will require a different kind of assessment, preferably one based on the curriculum to be used. If you have access to placement tests for the curriculum used by the school, that would be the most straightforward approach to finding his level. Alternatively, if the school were amenable, he could compact through the curriculum by taking chapter/unit tests in sequence until his accuracy drops below 70%, which would also be an approach to identifying his instructional level.