Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Teachers can't pass certification tests

But the thing is that many teachers aren't passing math knowledge onto someone else. They can't, because they don't have it themselves.

I'm no fan of multiple choice tests (and Pearson) for many reasons. I agree that high scores aren't evidence of the kind of knowledge needed to solve complex problems. But poor scores ARE strong evidence of lack of knowledge.

Future teachers have the lowest or near-lowest average SAT and GRE scores. They struggle to pass 9th-grade-level state certification tests that they know are coming for years --- there's no excuse for that.

I agree that knowing HOW to teach something is very important, but a person has to have the knowledge first. The teaching corps seems to make excuses on this point by claiming that soft skills around the knowledge are what's really important. That's not true. Both things are important.

I'm sorry about your struggles, but the facts are that certification tests aren't set at a high level. If they look hard or unfair, it's because of lack of knowledge, and people who have that knowledge can see this very easily.

My struggles have never been with tests or grades.

Thanks for trying to help me understand you perspective.


It's been a decade since I had to demonstrate knowledge using a test, but I used to compensate by using leftover time to work all of the (math) problems in reverse. (Doesn't really work on other subjects.) Multiple choice math is also my favorite because if I have the knowledge, but make a coding error, my error is usually so nonsensical as to not be one of the options, which tips me off that I did it wrong. Where I ran into problems eventually is that I might have perfect knowledge of the principles, but a coding/transcription error in the first step of a multipart question can lead to a cascade of wrong answers.

I believe you. But we're not talking about one person here. We're talking about averages in the teacher corps as a whole.

Lower overall test scores, less math knowledge overall than other groups of college students.

I view it as a bit of a vicious cycle. I think most of us here agree that general math education in North America leaves something to be desired, with much of the gap originating from poor foundational math skills, which are closely related to the effectiveness of math instruction in elementary school--which leads back to the deficiencies in math skills (let's leave aside descriptors of intelligence, and speak strictly of skills) of many elementary school teachers.

I have in my circle quite a few teachers, at all levels (as you might expect), some of whom are really quite good at pedagogy, and also very intelligent in their areas of strength. Those with both typically are able to acquire content knowledge when properly instructed, often for the first time as adults. For example, I know special education teachers who learned 10th grade math while teaching it alongside math content specialists in an inclusive setting, and now have the skills to pass the high school math teacher certification tests. An elementary teacher I know found teaching math in a curriculum aligned to the much-maligned Common Core frameworks to be eye-opening, as, for the first time in their experience, reasoning, problem-solving, and multiple methods were included in math instruction. (I will note that this teacher received training in the new curriculum, and actively engaged with it, unlike many of the others in the district.)

So yes, quite a lot of certified teachers lack foundational math skills, but a fair amount of that can likely be ascribed to, well, the lack of good math instruction in K-12 education.

Sorry if "dummies" offended people. I'm not referring to innate ability, but a lack of knowledge, lack of education, etc. If they don't understand math, or other subjects, how can they teach it? The link I posted had English questions as well. If teachers have a disability that prevents them from doing well on a test, then they should get accommodations, like increased time. One of my kids has problems focusing on tests like that, but who knows...might make a good teacher. But the questions themselves did not seem difficult and left me with the feeling of wanting to yell, "Please don't teach if you can't understand these questions!"

So what's the solution if teachers lack proper foundational math skills? I think they need to go through remedial math courses. And if they still can't pass the test (with accommodations if they need them), then they shouldn't teach. I don't think lowering the bar so anyone and everyone can teach is a good solution. We need some minimum standards and a certain level of knowledge, as well as teaching skills.

I didn't find them difficult, but I can see how they would be tough for anyone who has not learned to play the standardized test game. In particular, you need to read every answer and weigh them against one another to decide which is "best" instead of picking the first one that seems right. (This is more of an issue with the English questions than the math.)

A couple questions made me take a second look, and maybe they could write the English questions in a more straightforward way. The math questions weren't tricky at all. Just figure out the answer and find the right choice. On the other hand, by the time teachers take this test most of them should have taken dozens of multiple choice tests like this.

I just have a sinking feeling that people are ignoring the elephant in the room. There is a teacher shortage and the bar keeps going lower and lower. If teachers can't pass they will make it easier and easier til almost anyone could pass. We're already seeing a trend in certain cities--teachers don't even need to have a license, because of a shortage. People love to blame Common Core or standardized tests for all problems in education. But I think a major problem that people like to ignore or not discuss is that a lot of teachers are under-qualified. In the case of gifted kids, that could mean the kids have a better grasp of the material than their teachers. I also think this is related to boxed curriculums, computerized learning, etc. Districts eat it up, can't spend enough money on "curriculum" where teachers basically read a script. Administrators don't trust teachers to actually teach, and in the case of some of them, maybe there is a good reason why.

I tend to agree. There are a lot of problems in our schools. A big one is that different groups have staked out positions, which makes it almost impossible to talk honestly about our problems. Many teachers lack knowledge. This is a huge problem, but the unions often cry "teacher bashing!" when it's brought up. Teachers in some areas (not around here) are underpaid, which pushes people with other options away. But then...if you lack knowledge in your chosen career area, why should you get a lot of pay? It's a vicious circle in some ways. The Ed. department tried to fix it by defining "highly qualified teachers," but the definition leaves something to be desired:


I'm thinking that these would be minimum requirements to be a teacher, not the definition of someone who went far beyond. This definition is evidence that many teachers lack knowledge.

Education schools are part of the problem. Now, I don't blame future teachers for following required courses, but there does need to be an honest admission that if you failed a math test set at a 9th grade level and you'll be teaching math, there's a serious problem, and it's not with the test.

Meanwhile, the school industry sees education as a profit center, and it's having a lot of success there, to the detriment of learning (IMO). Plus, we have a thriving anti-intellectual, anti-science, alternative-facts movement in this country. And where does all that bond money go?

There's no simple solution, but I think the first requirement is going to be a national will to fix the schools. Right now, I don't see that happening, given all the dueling opinions about what that term means (evolution vs. creationism, bubble tests vs. slower-to-grade, more meaningful assessments, etc. etc.). As a nation, we're stuck in quicksand that we made ourselves.

It just makes me sad.

Makes me sad, too. Esp. not being able to talk about the issue, because then people will say you are bashing the poor teachers. We spent the last year dealing with horrible incompetence. And when I tried to talk about it to administration, it was like talking into a black hole. They can't acknowledge anything, because of teacher contracts. Which I support, but not for the teachers who are actually incompetent or not doing their jobs. I want high pay and union rights for competent teachers. We have the same situation here where people seem overpaid. Elementary school teachers making $80,000 per year with about 15 weeks of vacation. Administrators raking in $200k. The cost of living is average here, not high. So, I don't think the "answer" is necessarily to give better wages. In places where teachers are clearly under-paid that may help. But at a certain point you get to a level where paying more is not going to bring in or retain better teachers. Also, something seems to be seriously lacking in terms of teacher training programs. I think they should be selective and challenging and if teachers make it in, and then make it through, they should be rewarded with high pay kind of like doctors are rewarded with high pay to make up for the cost and challenge of medical school. Imagine a world where people could make it into medical school even though they scored in the 20th percentile on their SAT and floated through college getting C's and D's. Kind of scary. So I don't know why it's acceptable for teachers.

What's your source for education majors averaging in the 20th percentile on SATs?

(I am sad too, but I think it's depression, maybe OCPD. I don't think it's teachers. )