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Hi all. It's been a while since I've posted. I'm wondering if anyone has any recent thoughts on using AT for math writing. We are not sure what math course my 11-year-old DS is taking in the fall but I think it's Algebra 2. The math sequence is Algebra 1, geometry, Algebra 2 and then pre-calc, but they think he should reverse geometry and Algebra 2 to make their scheduling easier. Not sure if that's a great idea or not. They also think he should do Algebra 2 using some sort of online program because they can't keep him in a gifted cluster for other subjects if they put him in an 8th grade Algebra 2 class.
He has been typing his math using something called EquatIO. We have been told by 2 professors that LaTex is the best math writing program. It's already in his Google Acct. But I believe he has to choose either EquatIO OR LaTex whenever he types anything, and I don't know what the differences are. Has anyone heard of either of these two apps or tried them? I want to make sure he is trained in whatever is going to be the most useful moving into Calculus.
DS's motor coordination is below the first percentile and he still can't keyboard very well, so all of this has been kind of nightmarish, esp. with him being accelerated so much. I'm debating having him just skip math for a year, if that's possible/allowed. I can't imagine him in an independent course if he is so shaky using assistive technology.
Last edited by blackcat; 07/31/1807:13 AM. Reason: typos
My mathematical friends and family tell me that LaTex is what is used further up the educational chain, at the postsecondary and professional level. So it would make sense that professors would find it to be the best.
EquatIO has the advantage that it has embedded voice-to-math functions.
If he is still struggling with keyboarding, you might look into using voice-to-math more, either inside EquatIO, or by pairing Dragon Naturally Speaking with LaTex or MathTalk (though MathTalk is pricey). I wouldn't be surprised if the existing dictation functions in Google for Education work with LaTex, too, though I don't know for sure.
Also, LaTex and EquatIO have some compatibility with each other. (EquatIO can read and write in LaTex.) So I don't think he actually has to choose between the two of them, in the sense that when he starts to notate in EquatIO, he can choose LaTex inside it.
...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
Yes, that's correct. He can open up the EquatIO but then as he is typing he can open LaTex inside of EquatIO. So I guess I'm confused as to whether he needs to be trained in LaTex or he can keep using EquatIO and if he needs to use LaTex we can figure it out when the time comes without him needing to "re-learn" things. He has barely been trained at all in EquatIO other than informally by the teacher, who has also not been trained. You need to do a double exponent? Ok, let's see how that works. Let's spend an entire class period figuring it out. But moving forward he will be seen by a teacher inconsistently. So he doesn't know how to do speech to text using EquatIO, even though we are told that was the reason it was selected. If you need to divide 3y +2X all by 3 he wouldn't know how to do that using speech to text or what he needs to actually say. I wonder if there is a tutorial online since the training he has received has been so lacking. The teacher just doesn't have time to figure all of this out with him and the most the AT specialist does is pop in once or twice a year for 20 minutes.
Awesome! Thanks so much for all the links. The gifted specialist called me and said she figured out a way to manipulate his schedule to put him in the Algebra 2 class. It's not an ideal situation, but better than the independent study idea she proposed before (or the idea of putting him in the high school for math!). There are about 25 kids so I'm not sure how much time the teacher will have to help him. I need to experiment with the speech to text and LaTex to see if I can figure it out. We are also trying to improve his keyboarding skills. It's kind of hard to type complicated symbols when you are typing with 2 fingers. The district staff aren't really grasping how complicated and time consuming it is to type math, esp. for an 11 year old with a disability. It's actually easier to handwrite, but it would be impossible to read.
We have had no success with EquatIO for my daughter, my daughter is doing standard yr7 math which seems to fall between the levels that you see in EquatIO videos (all the ones I have seen are either K-2 kind of math or upper highschool). I asked the Australian distributor for help, sent them a page of her homework and they basically said "Yeah, EquatIO isn't going to be right for her, she should learn to use a whole lot of shortcuts and work arounds in Word". Which left me rather disappointed. Moving to full time Keyboarding in all other subjects made such a difference to her and has only made her handwriting worse now that she uses it less.
MumOfThree--is it pre-algebra? Last year (the year before Algebra 1) he was trained to use something called g(math) but no one ever bothered to implement it in the actual class. It may be discontinued, not sure.
The developer of g(math) (who was a single teacher with a passion project) joined texthelp, where it was further developed into EquatIO. So they have the same origins, but EquatIO has been refined and expanded by a team of professionals.
...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
Ok then g-math is not going to be helpful for pre-algebra. I'm glad to see that all these new developments are happening but I hope the developments can keep up with DS as he progresses through math. They still don't know how he is going to do Geometry, but I started watching that webinar and it looks like there is a way to import figures. However, DS was never even showed that texthelp screen that they are using. He is clueless about most of what that webinar is showing. What we need is something like Khan Academy for EquatIO where he can practice certain skills.
I see this about using Dragon in LaTex but given the fact that I don't know how to use either it comes across as gibberish to me. Maybe it can help someone else.
Blackcat, your original question poses quite a challenge. One possible solution is converting spoken language into written mathematics, which is actually quite difficult. The most successful technical solution for this I know of is available at https://mathtalk.com/, but it's a bit expensive for a single user.
If one wanted to build a similar system at home, the highest rated answer posted to the stackexchange question would be the most reasonable way to go. That is, use a speech-to-text program such as Dragon NaturallySpeaking (https://www.nuance.com/dragon.html) to convert the spoken word into text. One can train the Dragon system to recognize specific word/text pairs, which can be used to generate LaTeX commands in the text output. NatLatex (http://www.ataword.com/latex/natlatex.html) is one way to do this.
At it's core, LaTeX is a markup language. Similar to how HTML is used to format web pages, LaTeX is used to format mathematics. Unfortunately, the learning curve for LaTeX can be quite long (although, not necessarily steep). Most LaTeX users are also computer programmers, and so prefer to edit their documents in a code editor and then 'compile' the documents in a manner similar to compiling computer programs---not much help for kids that struggle with typing, I'm afraid. But, LaTeX is also an open standard, so there are many programs available to generate documents from a LaTeX commands.
One program that I think bridges the gap between plugins like EquatIO and code editor and might fit your needs is LyX (available here: https://www.lyx.org/, write-up here: https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/library/os-lyx/). LyX is free, available on most operating systems, and offers a graphical interface similar to most word processors with output to PDF. A large library of LaTeX commands are available via pull-down menus, which can aid in learning them. It may also be possible to connect the Dragon NS system into navigating the menus, although I can't confirm that.
I hope this helps some in finding a workable solution for your DS.
There is a real shortage of education on EquatIO, and also on tools for indivudiual students using it. There seems to be an idea that teachers will use it for whole classes and assign the work inside it. Which is great, because then teacher is onboard... But it's got no real tools for getting work set on paper or a digital textbook into equatIO without a lot of effort just copying over for the child (and huge risk of copying errors for my child)... And it just didn't seem appropriate for her level of math either. I was so excited when I found it and so disappointed it didn't work.
Let's say for a moment that I get DS to use LaTeX or LyX. Do the teachers also need to be trained in this for it to be successful? I'm thinking of exams, handouts, etc. We still don't have any system for exams and how he is supposed to type his answers. Sometimes there might be something like a graph or a figure on the page and the kids are expected to write on it.
Right now the district's attitude is to basically shrug their shoulders and say "well, LaTex is embedded in EquatIO so that addresses your concerns." Um, no it doesn't because no one is training him in either.
I did take a closer look at EquatIO and believe we have access to the premium version by logging into his school acct. I looked up some speech to text commands and tried them out. For Algebra 2 this might work but not sure about higher level math. Also, I can't imagine him speaking loudly into a chromebook in the middle of a class. There is handwriting recognition. But we would need to switch the chromebook to tablet mode and get him a stylus (if it's possible with his district issued chromebook?). He can't write a lot but it may help if he can't figure out how to convert something by typing or speaking. But no one has tried that with him and the chromebook is kept at school so I can't take a look at it. At home he is using a desktop. It's just really frustrating how complicated this is and having minimal support from the school district. Thanks for all the info.
