Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links
DITD Logo

Learn about the Davidson Academy’s online campus for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S.

The Davidson Institute for Talent Development is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Davidson Fellows Scholarship
  • Davidson Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute
  • DITD FaceBook   DITD Twitter   DITD YouTube
    The Davidson Institute is on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube!

    How gifted-friendly is
    your state?

    Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update

    Who's Online
    1 registered (pinewood1), 0 Guests and 243 Spiders online.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    Eric Johnson, cmh, bethanyc3, SageC, AmandaParkinson
    10658 Registered Users
    December
    Su M Tu W Th F Sa
    1 2 3 4 5 6 7
    8 9 10 11 12 13 14
    15 16 17 18 19 20 21
    22 23 24 25 26 27 28
    29 30 31
    Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
    Topic Options
    #243615 - 08/21/18 07:50 PM Re: CogAT to IQ [Re: Aden]
    Aden Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 07/29/18
    Posts: 35
    Thank you for providing this! I never was able to find this information! Although looking at this report, my percentile (user-based) is different than the score I achieved shown here. For example, I scored 1110 on the PSAT, which on my report places me in the 95th percentile, yet this report for Spring 2016 reports me at the 97th percentile (all percentiles user-based). Why would that be?

    Also, I have heard of ways to convert new SAT scores to pre-1995 SAT scores. Would that be a reliable way to do so? If so, how would that be done?

    Finally, regarding your stance on the ACT; it kind of makes sense now, since the average that the ACT board reports (which is 20.8 approximately) would represent the average of people who took the ACT, and not the general population, which IQ tests usually do. Would that be correct?

    Top
    #243616 - 08/21/18 08:33 PM Re: CogAT to IQ [Re: Aden]
    Aden Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 07/29/18
    Posts: 35
    The reason that I asked about the ACT and Triple Nine is because I thought that it was overestimating my correlated IQ score based on my first time SAT practice test score with no prep converted to an ACT score (I know that it's not accurate in the slightest, but it's the best that I could do).


    Here is how I correlated the scores: www.assessmentpsychology.com/iq.htm

    When I estimated the IQ score, it put me above 130, and I know for certain that the estimated score was way too high for me. So another question is, is this above chart accurate?

    Top
    #243625 - 08/22/18 11:55 AM Re: CogAT to IQ [Re: Aden]
    aeh Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3463
    I think you're better off using the actual PSAT percentile charts to estimate your IQ. Once you have the percentile, you can go to any percentile-to-IQ conversion chart and find a number. The chart you linked is accurate as far as it goes, but doesn't include any of the measures you actually have taken. Practice test scores aren't particularly reliable (a lot of people have fairly different scores on test day).

    For the PSAT percentile chart, make sure you are comparing yourself to the correct grade level (I made an assumption about your grade level at time of testing, which may or may not have been accurate), and to the national norms, not the user norms. The user norms are a slightly more selective population than the national norms. Oh, also these percentiles are for the spring 2016 test, which apparently was slightly less selective than the fall 2015 test for which you sat. But the national norms are the ones you want, anyway.

    On the ACT: yes. As with the user vs national norms of the PSAT, the user norms are more selective.

    And FYI, the 97th %ile on most cognitive assessments is about 128.


    Edited by aeh (08/22/18 12:00 PM)

    Top
    #243627 - 08/22/18 12:17 PM Re: CogAT to IQ [Re: Aden]
    Aden Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 07/29/18
    Posts: 35
    So what you are saying is that a PSAT percentile should be about the same as an IQ percentile?

    The reason I ask is because I took the NMSQT in Fall 2016, and I received a score of 1250 on it. Since the test score can be converted to the PSAT 8/9, I would be receiving a 98th percentile score (national) if I had taken it as a 9th grader. This score is Mensa eligible, while the former one you mentioned (97th or 128) isn't.

    Top
    #243629 - 08/22/18 01:16 PM Re: CogAT to IQ [Re: Aden]
    aeh Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3463
    Roughly. They're not the same test, obviously, but both indicate your rank order in the population in related skills. As much as the College Board claims you can directly equate all of their measures, I would be careful about doing so to that level of precision. 97th and 98th percentile aren't substantially different (despite one falling one side of the Mensa line, and the other falling on the other side). On the actual PSAT/NMSQT percentile chart from your 9th grade administration, you fall at the 95th %ile for 10th graders (https://collegereadiness.collegeboard.org/pdf/psat-nmsqt-understanding-scores.pdf), which I cite mainly to point out that a point up or down here and there can appear to make a difference, but really isn't meaningful.

    You have NMSQT scores from fall 2017, when you were actually a 10th grader, and thus the 10th grade national percentile charts from the PSAT/NMSQT would apply to you. That would be a better way of ordering you than extrapolating onto the PSAT 8/9 charts from your 9th grade PSAT/NMSQT score.

    The bottom line, again, is that you are clearly bright and capable, and on an excellent track to be college-ready academically. Your life outcomes are highly unlikely to be affected principally by whether your "true" IQ falls to one side or the other of the nominal GT line, since ultimately, noncognitive factors (character, responsibility, work ethic, resilience to failure, compassion, social skills, etc.) will distinguish you more from other high achievers --GT-identified or otherwise-- than intellect alone.

    A kind-hearted and trustworthy 128 IQ is far to be preferred over a self-centered, cruel --or even merely careless-- 148.

    Top
    #243630 - 08/22/18 01:41 PM Re: CogAT to IQ [Re: Aden]
    Aden Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 07/29/18
    Posts: 35
    I definitely do not think that 128 is low as an IQ score. (actually doubted that score at first, thinking it may be too high). However, you are right. It is much better to have a steadfast personality than having one that constantly changes for the good or the bad. Besides, after 120 one can accomplish pretty much anything!

    Top
    #243631 - 08/22/18 01:49 PM Re: CogAT to IQ [Re: Aden]
    Aden Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 07/29/18
    Posts: 35
    I'm sorry for all these incessant questions, but I may have a few more that I may not remember. Here is one I have, though. If I were to take a WAIS test and scored 128 FSIQ, what are some possible subtest profiles that could occur? (as in with VCI, PRI, WMI, and PSI scaled scores with the subtests scaled scores, like with Coding, Similarities, etc.?) Could you show some possibilities of such profiles? I want to see some examples just to understand how scoring works. Once again, sorry for all these incessant questions.

    Top
    #243634 - 08/22/18 03:35 PM Re: CogAT to IQ [Re: Aden]
    aeh Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3463
    No need to apologize, Aden! I'm happy to help you understand how this all works.

    There are quite a number of possible WAIS-IV profiles that could result in FSIQ 128. You could have an even profile, with a lot of strong 13s, 14s, and 15s among your subtest scores, or a spiky one, with some essentially average scores (10s, 11s, 12s) and some very high scores (17s, 18s, 19s). You might even have some extreme strengths paired with significant weaknesses. The subtests comprising your index scores could be split in a similar way, or they could be more consistent within indices. If you have marked learning preferences, some of the indices might be higher than others.

    The way scoring works for the index scores (VCI, PRI, WMI, PSI) and the composite scores (FSIQ, GAI) is that subtest scaled scores are added, and then the sum of scaled scores is converted to a standard score. The conversion doesn't take into account how you obtain that sum of scaled scores. So, for instance, if the sum of scaled scores = 138 converts to an FSIQ = 128 (don't take this as the real numbers, as I don't have the tables in front of me at the moment), there will be no distinction between obtaining this from 8 14s and 2 13s (mostly Superior with a couple of High Average) vs 6 19s (Very Superior, at the top of the scale) and 4 6s (below average). Functionally, of course, you might expect pretty noticeable differences between someone who is uniformly a bit stronger than average across the board, and someone who has exceptional strengths in the upper extreme of the population, but also has deficiencies in certain areas (the latter individual is likely to be twice exceptional--having both extreme gifts and some kind of learning disability).

    Subtest scaled scores are based on conversions from raw scores (the actual number of points obtained on the task) to scaled scores using age norms. On the WAIS, the age norms are slightly less critical than on the WISC, but they do still matter. At age 16, you would be compared to other 16-17 year-olds, while, say, your 32-year-old physics teacher would be compared to other 30-39 year-olds. If you wanted to compare you to each other, based on your actual performance at this moment in time, you could convert both scores using the reference norms. This would compare your absolute performance, rather than your rank order among your age peers.

    Top
    #243635 - 08/22/18 04:53 PM Re: CogAT to IQ [Re: Aden]
    Aden Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 07/29/18
    Posts: 35
    And if there are major discrepancies in scores (i.e. some 10s and some 19s), that might suggest a learning disability of some sort? Also, how would the GAI be calculated if there is hypothetically the aforementioned discrepancy, since both the FSIQ and GAI can differ?

    Also, do certain subtests have more weight to them than others, similar to class tests that have 65% the weight of your final grade?

    Top
    #243644 - 08/23/18 08:42 AM Re: CogAT to IQ [Re: Aden]
    aeh Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3463
    Yes, it is possible that large discrepancies in the subtest scores might suggest interfering factors, such as learning disabilities.

    The GAI is calculated the same way as the FSIQ; it just doesn't include the WMI and PSI subtests.

    The WAIS-IV composite scores are unweighted. There are other tests that are weighted, such as the Woodcock-Johnson (WJIV, currently).

    Top
    Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >


    Moderator:  M-Moderator 
    Recent Posts
    What did you do with your Pre-K/K child?
    by Alannc44
    05:06 AM
    A Bit Overwhelmed - Just Starting Out
    by Portia
    06:09 PM
    Please help with WISC-V scores and ADHD.
    by aeh
    04:44 PM
    2e? IEP help for 5 year old please
    by polarbear
    03:17 PM
    nonfiction books for middle schooler
    by Platypus101
    04:35 AM
    Davidson Institute Twitter