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    #243375 - 07/31/18 07:00 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: aquinas]
    Bostonian Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/14/10
    Posts: 2593
    Loc: MA
    Originally Posted By: aquinas
    I actually agree with Bostonian’s comment. If there’s a subset of Ivy admissions that relies on infusions of endowments for enrolment, call a spade a spade. The reason such honesty doesn’t exist is because those wealthy families who so strongly identify with Ivy status that they’re willing to buy it lack the self awareness to openly accept their progeny’s lack of genuine ability at face value, and the implications that carries about themselves. The value they get is plausible deniability to themselves. A rich, deluded idiot will, apparently, part with a lot of money to avoid reality.

    "Delusion" may not play a large role. Some rich people may rationally believe that if they can buy their offspring a place at Harvard, the connections their children will make there will boost their careers or help them marry well. If you have say $100 million, are you deluded to prefer to have $99 million and a kid at a Harvard or Princeton, rather than State U?

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    #243383 - 07/31/18 03:12 PM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: Bostonian]
    aquinas Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/12
    Posts: 2277
    Originally Posted By: Bostonian
    Originally Posted By: aquinas
    I actually agree with Bostonian’s comment. If there’s a subset of Ivy admissions that relies on infusions of endowments for enrolment, call a spade a spade. The reason such honesty doesn’t exist is because those wealthy families who so strongly identify with Ivy status that they’re willing to buy it lack the self awareness to openly accept their progeny’s lack of genuine ability at face value, and the implications that carries about themselves. The value they get is plausible deniability to themselves. A rich, deluded idiot will, apparently, part with a lot of money to avoid reality.

    "Delusion" may not play a large role. Some rich people may rationally believe that if they can buy their offspring a place at Harvard, the connections their children will make there will boost their careers or help them marry well. If you have say $100 million, are you deluded to prefer to have $99 million and a kid at a Harvard or Princeton, rather than State U?


    Marry well? What does that even mean outside a gauche, mercenary lens? Do these schools offer weekenders on maximizing the ROI on your dowry, too? Good grief. Who thinks like that?!

    In a word, yes, delusion factors in. Your statement encapsulates that nicely. A family with $100 million to its name has no business stepping on the throats of legitimate candidates to secure further privilege. Delusion? Of the highest order. Most good families who have earned their fortunes legitimately would be mortified to engage in such desperate, grasping antics. How humiliating.

    Also, who are these socially unconnected families with wealth in the hundreds of millions? That doesn’t compute.

    In case the case for delusion isn’t clear, here are further comments. The parent can’t produce a capable enough child to earn admission, so he/she greases the wheels to personally save face and supplants a more valuable candidate. Why? Because the adult child is still an extension of the parental ego, as is the child’s future “success”. If the parent is incapable of producing offspring that can earn the best fairly, what does that say about the parent, from the lens of a blighted ego...? Hence, the prestige premium, and the complicity of the school in not conspicuously outing rich parents for buying spaces for their uncompetitive children.

    I still agree with you that they should be openly called bought seats.
    _________________________
    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.

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    #243389 - 08/01/18 06:01 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    mckinley Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/03/18
    Posts: 114
    What if those donations are providing scholarships for qualified students that would be financially unable to attend? Depending on how the funds are managed, the loss of one spot in one year, could provide spots to underprivileged students in perpetuity.

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    #243394 - 08/01/18 02:11 PM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: mckinley]
    aquinas Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/12
    Posts: 2277
    Originally Posted By: mckinley
    What if those donations are providing scholarships for qualified students that would be financially unable to attend? Depending on how the funds are managed, the loss of one spot in one year, could provide spots to underprivileged students in perpetuity.


    And this is likely what is happening-- intellectual patronage by accident! smile
    _________________________
    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.

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    #243395 - 08/01/18 02:15 PM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: Portia]
    aquinas Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/12
    Posts: 2277
    Originally Posted By: Portia
    Sorry for the shock, Aquinas. But yes, "marry well" is a thing. Networking connections are very much a thing and is economically based to a surprising extent. So many jobs and experiences are based on who you know. People in our area pay big money to private schools and actively work the future networking opportunities for their children as a huge bonus.



    It happens everywhere. Doesn't make it less distasteful or mercenary. (And in no way am I suggesting that's the approach you're taking, Portia. We've corresponded at length, and I have tremendous respect for how you're raising your DS.)

    Maybe I'm just showing my own fatigue at being hit up for handouts by useless social climbers. You can practically see the dollar signs in their eyes as they shake your hand. Ugh.

    There's also the implied misogyny in the idea that offends, because it suggests that women's highest value is still...landing a man.
    _________________________
    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.

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    #243397 - 08/01/18 04:28 PM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: Portia]
    aquinas Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/12
    Posts: 2277
    Originally Posted By: Portia
    Originally Posted By: aquinas


    Maybe I'm just showing my own fatigue at being hit up for handouts by useless social climbers. You can practically see the dollar signs in their eyes as they shake your hand. Ugh.

    There's also the implied misogyny in the idea that offends, because it suggests that women's highest value is still...landing a man.


    Yes. We have found the social climbers are not so prevalent in the homeschool community. Much nicer environment in which to teach values. I see it less within the hg+ community as well. Every now and again I encounter it, but for the most part, the journey is so odd, others are welcomed.



    That’s been my experience, as well. At the risk of over-generalizing, it seems like parents of the bright to MG are still a bit preoccupied with status, while the HG+ are just thrilled to meet someone who “gets” them and shares their curiosity, and challenges!

    Aside- I’ve made some adult friends through this forum. I can only liken the experience to drinking through a fire hose and loving every second of it. Finding kindred spirits is one of the most rewarding experiences life has to offer!

    Maybe that explains my aversion to traditional ideas of marrying “well”. Monetary value be damned! In the eternal words of Cake, I like a man “with a mind like a diamond, who is fast, thorough, and sharp as a tack.” THAT’S appealing. wink
    _________________________
    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.

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    #243792 - 09/09/18 04:41 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Wren Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1525
    Totally out of touch if you think 1 million buys you a spot at Harvard. A dozen years ago, when DH was doing fundraising from his class, one woman gave 1 mm and her husband kicked in a few more millions and their son got rejected with double legacy.

    100 million would probably buy you a spot. But even the Kennedys were told not to let John Jr. apply. hence he went to brown.

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    #243794 - 09/09/18 05:01 AM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    NotSoGifted Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/14/12
    Posts: 445
    I think a few million can secure a spot at Harvard, if the student is borderline - say SAT and HS GPA in bottom 25% for Harvard, but not completely outside the range of admitted students. A 2.0 GPA and sub-1000 SAT is not getting in, no matter what you donate.

    I know Ivy League athletes with SATs way too low to be admitted for academics (though GPA was good), and they got in. They were big impact players in their sports, and did graduate in four years. Colleges will admit kids with "low" SATs or GPA, but there is a limit, as they want students who can pass courses and graduate. A good guide to admissibility to an Ivy is calculating a student's Academic Index.

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    #243801 - 09/09/18 12:01 PM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Wren Offline
    Member

    Registered: 01/14/08
    Posts: 1525
    They post their minimum SAT scores. So they have to be within that range. And going through the college blogs, there was a bunch of minorities that had low end SAT, non athletes that got in.

    It was a weird year looking through the posts.

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    #244041 - 10/06/18 08:19 PM Re: Ivy League Admissions. [Re: 22B]
    Cranberry Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/29/13
    Posts: 153
    Can you provide a link to where these minimum SAT scores are posted? Having been through the admissions process, "we have no minimum scores, everyone is considered holistically" is what I heard/read 100% of the time.

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