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    Kai #242562 05/04/18 01:13 PM
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    A few thoughts on Joy Hakim's history...

    1) from wikipedia:
    Originally Posted by wikipedia
    Criticism
    Hakim's treatment of pre-modern Western history and the New World colonial period in History of Us: Making Thirteen Colonies has been criticized by the president of the Textbook League, William J. Bennetta. In particular, the concept of multiculturalism, including an asserted Chinese influence on European culture in The First Americans, has been criticized by Bennetta for its lack of support by archaeological or historical records. Some older middle school aged students could find the books graded towards a lower level, and therefore frustrating.

    2) from Joy Hakim's website:
    Originally Posted by Joy Hakim website
    A Texas teacher, using the books to teach reading to low achieving students, saw reading scores soar and was named Texas Teacher of the Year.
    These books may not be geared for gifted pupils.

    jmiya #242563 05/04/18 01:22 PM
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    I did not label your post as "nonsense," but I did label the ideas as nonsense, which is verifiable fact.

    Of the 13 original colonies, five can be said to have been initially formed from a primary motive of establishing religious freedom. Let's not pretend the other 8 didn't exist.

    Three of the thirteen colonies, plus parts of others, were formed by the Dutch. Germans made up the largest group of non-English immigrants, though waves of immigrants from Scotland, Ireland, and Sweden had already made the place a melting pot before the Revolution began.

    jmiya #242564 05/04/18 01:44 PM
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    A few books of historical fiction to consider adding to a reading list:
    - Johnny Tremain (revolutionary war)
    - Across Five Aprils (civil war)
    - Oscar's Gift: Planting Words with Oscar Micheaux (independently published middle-grade novel, by former SENG director Lisa Rivero, 2011)

    Dude #242565 05/04/18 01:54 PM
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    Originally Posted by Dude
    Three of the thirteen colonies, plus parts of others, were formed by the Dutch. Germans made up the largest group of non-English immigrants, though waves of immigrants from Scotland, Ireland, and Sweden had already made the place a melting pot before the Revolution began.
    The Library of Congress link shared upthread does mention religious persecution for people of these regions.

    indigo #242566 05/04/18 02:20 PM
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    Originally Posted by indigo
    Originally Posted by Dude
    Three of the thirteen colonies, plus parts of others, were formed by the Dutch. Germans made up the largest group of non-English immigrants, though waves of immigrants from Scotland, Ireland, and Sweden had already made the place a melting pot before the Revolution began.
    The Library of Congress link shared upthread does mention religious persecution for people of these regions.

    Then perhaps it's the kind of biased account that it would do well to offset by sources offering a different perspective.

    Dude #242567 05/04/18 02:30 PM
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    Originally Posted by Dude
    Originally Posted by indigo
    Originally Posted by Dude
    Three of the thirteen colonies, plus parts of others, were formed by the Dutch. Germans made up the largest group of non-English immigrants, though waves of immigrants from Scotland, Ireland, and Sweden had already made the place a melting pot before the Revolution began.
    The Library of Congress link shared upthread does mention religious persecution for people of these regions.

    Then perhaps it's the kind of biased account that it would do well to offset by sources offering a different perspective.
    You appeared to counter the idea in my post regarding religious persecution, calling it nonsense. I invited you to share a source which informed your view, and so far you have not. I have shared multiple sources which informed my view that religious persecution was a factor.

    You may not like the sources I cited but they do include images of primary source documents, which may be taken as "verifiable fact."

    The invitation remains open for you to share resources which inform your view(s).

    Meanwhile the links which I have shared (Library of Congress, PBS, and book list) may be considered supplemental resources for the OP and others seeking materials for teaching US History to their middle school age children.

    indigo #242571 05/04/18 05:52 PM
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    Originally Posted by indigo
    You appeared to counter the idea in my post regarding religious persecution, calling it nonsense. I invited you to share a source which informed your view, and so far you have not. I have shared multiple sources which informed my view that religious persecution was a factor.

    It looks like you've already abandoned your original position that "the ancestors/founders of the US were largely English and motivated by a quest for freedom from religious prosecution," and have moved to "religion was a factor," at which point we no longer have a disagreement.

    Even your book from the Library of Congress contradicts your original position:

    Quote
    The New England colonies, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Maryland were conceived and established "as plantations of religion." Some settlers who arrived in these areas came for secular motives--"to catch fish" as one New Englander put it--but the great majority left Europe to worship God in the way they believed to be correct.

    And except for the fact that the author is grossly oversimplifying in the cast of New Jersey, and flat-out wrong in incorporating New Hampshire into the areas he's citing, and just partially wrong in the case of Pennsylvania because Quakers were already a minority by the time the Revolution began, I don't disagree with the above.

    Again, five of thirteen do not a majority make.

    Originally Posted by indigo
    You may not like the sources I cited but they do include images of primary source documents, which may be taken as "verifiable fact."

    The invitation remains open for you to share resources which inform your view(s).

    It's a lot easier if you've only read a few books, but I'd basically have to give you source material on every single one of the colonies that I'm aggregating and condensing here for you. My list of sources would be ridiculously long and unwieldy. If you wanted to talk about any particular colony, that would be more manageable. But we're talking about over a century's worth of complicated history over hundreds of thousands of square miles, in a time where lack of communication and fast transit meant that history was very local.

    But honestly, you could simply go to Wikipedia and find out why each colony was formed. You could see there that New Jersey was first settled by the Dutch West India Company and the Swedish South Company for profit motives (the Dutch acquired the Swedish section by force, then the British acquired both from the Dutch the same way), and that it was only after the British gained control and its new proprietors began enticing renters that religion became a factor for new settlers - and even then, it's only a factor, because it's literally a single item in an otherwise comprehensive agreement: http://avalon.law.yale.edu/17th_century/nj02.asp

    jmiya #242573 05/04/18 06:35 PM
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    Demographics of Pennsylvania Colony

    Quote
    Germans – Thousands of Germans were also attracted to the colony and, by the time of the Revolution, comprised a third of the population.

    Scotch-Irish – They [...] numbered about one-fourth of the population by 1776.

    These are estimates, of course, but it leaves only about 42% of the population to be divided among the remaining groups: English, Native Americans, Africans, and "others." The English cannot have been a majority.

    Dude #242574 05/04/18 09:43 PM
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    Originally Posted by Dude
    Originally Posted by indigo
    You appeared to counter the idea in my post regarding religious persecution, calling it nonsense. I invited you to share a source which informed your view, and so far you have not. I have shared multiple sources which informed my view that religious persecution was a factor.
    It looks like you've already abandoned your original position that "the ancestors/founders of the US were largely English and motivated by a quest for freedom from religious prosecution," and have moved to "religion was a factor," at which point we no longer have a disagreement.

    Even your book from the Library of Congress contradicts your original position:
    Quote
    The New England colonies, New Jersey, Pennsylvania, and Maryland were conceived and established "as plantations of religion." Some settlers who arrived in these areas came for secular motives--"to catch fish" as one New Englander put it--but the great majority left Europe to worship God in the way they believed to be correct.
    1) You have misquoted my post.
    2) I have not changed my position.
    3) The LOC link supports and informs my view "...motivated by a quest for freedom from religious persecution"
    4) Although you appear to have labeled religious persecution as "nonsense", you have not provided a source which informs your view(s).
    5) Whereas I spoke of founding fathers and their ancestors being English as opposed to "Spaniards", you have changed the topic to demographics of the 13 colonies.

    Originally Posted by Dude
    But honestly, you could simply go to Wikipedia and find out why each colony was formed.
    That is different than you providing a source which informs your view that what I posted was "nonsense."

    Originally Posted by Dude
    Demographics of Pennsylvania Colony
    Quote
    Germans – Thousands of Germans were also attracted to the colony and, by the time of the Revolution, comprised a third of the population.
    Scotch-Irish – They [...] numbered about one-fourth of the population by 1776.
    These are estimates, of course, but it leaves only about 42% of the population to be divided among the remaining groups: English, Native Americans, Africans, and "others." The English cannot have been a majority.
    1) In general, a weebly website is not on par with Library of Congress and/or PBS. Students of history (and other topics) are often encouraged to seek out credible sources, and are encouraged to become familiar with distinguishing characteristics/features of credible sources.
    2) The specific weebly website which you referenced does not provide basic information such as: author, sources, bibliography, purpose of website, etc.
    3) The weebly website discusses the demographics of Pennsylvania only, not of all 13 colonies.
    4) The weebly website does not discuss the motivation of settlers (freedom from religious persecution, etc)

    In this post, the takeaway for the OP and others interested in resources for teaching their middle-school children US History would be: distinguishing characteristics/features of credible sources, Purdue OWL (Online Writing Lab).

    indigo #242580 05/05/18 11:59 AM
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    Originally Posted by indigo
    A few thoughts on Joy Hakim's history...

    1) from wikipedia:
    Originally Posted by wikipedia
    Criticism
    Hakim's treatment of pre-modern Western history and the New World colonial period in History of Us: Making Thirteen Colonies has been criticized by the president of the Textbook League, William J. Bennetta. In particular, the concept of multiculturalism, including an asserted Chinese influence on European culture in The First Americans, has been criticized by Bennetta for its lack of support by archaeological or historical records. Some older middle school aged students could find the books graded towards a lower level, and therefore frustrating.

    2) from Joy Hakim's website:
    Originally Posted by Joy Hakim website
    A Texas teacher, using the books to teach reading to low achieving students, saw reading scores soar and was named Texas Teacher of the Year.
    These books may not be geared for gifted pupils.


    My kid is gifted and used it at ages 9 and 10 and it was appropriate. But thanks for prediction that "some may find them geared towards a lower level, and frustrating". Never sure who those "some" are that are so frequently referred to. I don't think she GEARED them toward anyone. I think she wrote them.
    Textbook league is William Bennetta. Anyone wondering about him can google him.
    At the time we were using the series, there was a well organized campaign against them as anti Christian by the new earth crowd. They are quite secular and enlightening. I thoroughly enjoyed reading them as an adult and did not feel they were simple or talking down at all. Primary sources are good, and are taught in G3 with this series, and it helps to have some glue to bind them together for context.

    Wikipedia is OK to quote when it suits one's purposes but "In general, a weebly website is not on par with Library of Congress and/or PBS. Students of history (and other topics) are often encouraged to seek out credible sources, and are encouraged to become familiar with distinguishing characteristics/features of credible sources."



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