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    #242361 - 04/24/18 05:32 PM Re: Escalating American Public University Tuition [Re: Old Dad]
    aquinas Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/12
    Posts: 2496
    Originally Posted By: Old Dad
    Once again aquinas, simply because something is beneficial doesn't mean that it's the purpose of especially the federal and perhaps not even state or local government to provide. If your state or local government wants to provide for college funding, so be it, however, as I've mentioned numerous times, this isn't a purpose outlined in our Constitution or it's amendments. What isn't outlined the Constitution and it's amendments falls to the states and the people by direction of those same amendments.

    Nobody is stopping anyone from contributing as MUCH as they want to the pursuit of their fellow citizens to gain a college degree, you're all free to sell everything you own and contribute it all and so am I. What I am not free to do is require you, by force if necessary, to fund another adult's college pursuit. With that in mind, how about you contribute what you deem appropriate to charitable and/or worth wile pursuit's and I'll do the same. In that way I'm not trying to put my priorities and preferences on you and you're not trying to put your priorities and preferences on me. Sounds quite equitable doesn't it?


    In a nutshell, youíre suggesting that itís unconstitutional to implement structures that require taxpayers to federally fund post secondary tuition. The mere existence of tuition grants for post-secondary education at the federal level, and the conspicuous absence of successful constitutional challenges in that area, suggest that constitutional law scholars do not share your opinion.

    https://studentaid.ed.gov/sa/types/grants-scholarships

    If youíd like to discuss what constitutional law does and does not provide for, both historically and in terms of modern jurisprudence, we should start a separate thread in which to address that properly, so as not to hijack what is otherwise a discussion of the causes of, and remedies for, high tuition fees at public universities.

    I thank Dude for his confidence in my argumentation. Economists may not believe in a free lunch, but weíre certainly happy to pilfer anotherís lunch should the opportunity present itself.

    Now...tuition rates at public universities are high. What can we do to fix the root cause, which is the pricing model, rather than continue to talk at cross-purposes about the optimal tuition payor? We can make some headway there.
    _________________________
    What is to give light must endure burning.

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    #242362 - 04/25/18 04:29 AM Re: Escalating American Public University Tuition [Re: aquinas]
    Old Dad Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/30/12
    Posts: 423
    Originally Posted By: aquinas

    In a nutshell, youíre suggesting that itís unconstitutional to implement structures that require taxpayers to federally fund post secondary tuition. The mere existence of tuition grants for post-secondary education at the federal level, and the conspicuous absence of successful constitutional challenges in that area, suggest that constitutional law scholars do not share your opinion.


    I'm not just suggesting it, I'm blatantly asserting it. Our federal government has become so bloated with over reach we have become blind to it. The lack of a challenge does not equate to a reality. Have you ever heard of the story of the Emperor's new cloths? Existence also does not equate to correctness.

    Once again, please find me in our Constitution or it's amendments where education, and especially post secondary education is outlined as a duty / purpose / responsibility of the federal government and then we have a different discussion. You can't, it's not there.

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    #242363 - 04/25/18 06:30 AM Re: Escalating American Public University Tuition [Re: aquinas]
    Old Dad Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/30/12
    Posts: 423
    Originally Posted By: aquinas

    Now...tuition rates at public universities are high. What can we do to fix the root cause, which is the pricing model, rather than continue to talk at cross-purposes about the optimal tuition payor? We can make some headway there.


    Are we sure that the pricing model is the problem or simply the symptom? We've already been discussing multiple root problems.

    Originally Posted By: indigo

    - Availability of student loans.
    - Emphasis on and investment in sports (as opposed to academics).
    - Construction of campus amenities such as water parks, waterslides, lazy rivers, rock climbing walls.
    - Benefits offered to employees may include college tuition for offspring... thereby transferring the cost of these "free" seats to the remaining student body.
    - Age of professors (baby boomers retiring, some institutions have promised lifelong pensions). I understand that to offset this, some institutions now hire more adjuncts, assistant professors, and associate professors... all of whom who are paid much less than full tenured professors.
    - Investment in technology. This could reasonably be expected to have a payback period of lowered costs of operating... but may instead become an upward spiral of early adoption of new technology... an arms race.
    - Insurance costs. Unfortunately, we may live in a litigious society.


    We can add federal government loan involvement as has previously been mentioned as a reason for strong rate of tuition increase.

    We can also add lack of effort to streamline college credit transfers to that list as has previously been mentioned.

    We can also add lack of transparency in justification of spending to that list as has previously been mentioned.

    Eliminating unnecessary duplication of programs as has previously been mentioned.

    It's also been mentioned that a good part of it is simply supply and demand. The demand right now is extremely high as employers are using college as a sorting tool. When we stop sending people to college to pay for degrees they don't need to perform the job they get, that demand goes down forcing colleges to streamline what they offer to be more attractive. In short, we keep feeding the beast, it'll continue to grow and get more hungry.

    Perhaps just as importantly is demanding from our government representatives to examine all of these causes and force state colleges to work on these issues. As for private colleges, that obviously doesn't hold near the weight, for that, as consumers we simply need to stop feeding them without holding them responsible.

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