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    #242003 04/09/18 01:04 PM
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    Hi,

    My second grader just got her MAP scores back for math, and I am a bit confused about what they mean. She scored 241 overall, which, according to the MAP percentiles, would put her at the 90th percentile for tenth grade. But she certainly doesn't know tenth grade math. We don't do any supplemental math instruction at home, she attends a normal public school (actually in quite a poor area), and is not in a gifted program. So what does her score mean? One thing I noticed is that her scores for measurement and geometry stayed the same across the year, while her scores for numbers and operations and algebraic thinking (260 and 263 respectively) skyrocketed. Is she making inferences to higher levels of math independent of instruction? I'm wondering if, given this, we should look into giftedness-- or perhaps have some more specific math testing.
    Any advice would be helpful.

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    Welcome!

    If you look around, you'll find that there are several threads here on MAP testing. One of the first points to note is that there are several different levels of MAP, including MPG (K-2nd), grade 2-5, and grade 6+. All of them use the same scale, but not the same material. Secondly, the percentile-for-grade-level numbers you found don't necessarily mean that she has mastered all the content expected of a tenth-grader. It actually means that she obtained the same raw score on this particular test as a tenth-grader at that percentile would have been expected to obtain on -the same- test.

    Now see how these two pieces of information interact: if she was tested on the grade K-2 test, there was no material on it above about the 3rd grade level, so she was demonstrating the same level of skill -on primary grade math- that a tenth grader would. That's still a strong math performance, but not quite the same as the grade equivalents would imply. On the 2-5, it would be a somewhat higher level of math, but still not high school level.

    The changes in subscores may or may not be meaningful, again depending on the content assessed. She may have maxed out some of the areas on earlier assessments (e.g., there are often very few items on geometry in primary-age math assessments, whereas numbers and operations might be expected to have a wider range of difficulty levels).

    On your second question, regarding giftedness: it is possible that this does indicate mathematical giftedness. Whether this warrants additional testing is a family decision, which I generally base on two questions:
    1. Is there a current problem (an apparent obstacle to healthy functioning or development) that needs additional information for elucidation and solution planning?
    2. Will further testing potentially provide access to a resource of particular value to the learner (in the context of family values and needs)?

    If the answer to either question is yes, then I typically would find value in further discussion of evaluation of some sort.


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    Thanks, that�s very helpful. So according to the MAP site, at her score (above 235) she is �ready for algebra.� Yet algebra is not introduced in the core curriculum until high school. So I�m still unclear how the test score translates to grade level work. Does being ready for algebra mean that she can skip the pre-algebra curriculum that she would normally take en route to high school? That doesn�t seem plausible. If the MAP score doesn�t relate to substantive knowledge, is it then a bit more like a quantitative reasoning test, based on the instruction a child has received at a given grade level� so that being ready for algebra means that she has demonstrated a level of mathematical understanding that indicates that she is likely at this stage to be able to understand algebra, given the right instruction?

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    Short answer is it doesn't translate to grade level work. MAP is not a quantitative reasoning test of the aptitude variety.
    It's an achievement test, which does assess substantive knowledge, but not comprehensively. The design of MAP was originally for progress monitoring and universal screening, mainly of at-risk learners. It's pretty good at that, but not necessarily as good at the other end of the curve. The items administered are designed to sample expected skills, not to obtain a comprehensive assessment of mastery of all grade-level standards. So while it's a little better at assessing mastery of grade-level skills than some other instruments, the results still have to be interpreted with a fair amount of caution, especially on the upper end. If you wanted to know if a student had mastered all of the skills and concepts for a certain grade level, you would have to use a criterion-referenced test, not a norm-referenced test, and preferably a curriculum-based end-of-course test (aka, a final exam for the course, taken from the math curriculum in use in the school).

    And I'll direct you back to the point that the scaled score is not always derived from assessments of skills at the equivalent grade level. That "ready for algebra" score doesn't necessarily mean she was assessed on pre-algebra skills. Just that she performed as well on the items she was administered (which might have been early elementary basic arithmetic) as a eighth or ninth grader who really was ready for algebra might be expected to perform. Having the same two-digit addition and subtraction skills as a ninth-grader does not equate to being ready for algebra. Or if she took the intermediate level of the test, then it might be that she did as well on late elementary math as an entering high schooler would be expected to do, but she still wouldn't have been assessed on actual pre-algebra skills. So unless she took the grade 6+ version of the test (highly unlikely in a child of this age who has not previously been identified as GT), a score that meets the algebra readiness cutoff tells you very little about her readiness for algebra.

    Mainly, it tells you that she has very strong math skills in comparison to her peers, but it doesn't tell you how far above second grade her instructional level is, nor does it tell you if there are gaps that might need to be filled to maximize success in single subject acceleration. You need curriculum-based assessment for that.


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    Thanks for the response. So you are saying that the test is achievement-based, but only relative to grade level material (or at least a given band of grades). But the MAP test is adaptive, so that as questions are answered correctly, they get more difficult. I thought that "more difficult" meant introducing new topics, from higher grade levels, but on your account it just means asking more difficult questions within a grade level (or band of grade levels). I found out that my daughter was given the K-2 test, so she wouldn't have encountered any new topics, just harder problems about the topics she's covered in class. If that's the case, then it does seem as if the MAP test is not really charting the limits of her knowledge, but rather just indicates her aptitude at applying grade level knowledge.

    I'm now wondering how well her teachers really understand the nature of this test. On the basis of her math score, as well as her reading ability (she is reading at about 7th grade level, with a lexile reading score of 1150, MAP score of 225) her teachers are recommending that she skip third grade. But if the MAP math test just measures how good she is at K-2 math, that would seem to be a very bad idea, as she would have to grasp fourth grade math concepts without having first learned third grade ones.

    At the same time, the test might well indicate that she picks up math skills very quickly and thoroughly. So maybe some acceleration is in order?

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    So MAP is adaptive, which does mean that if one answers more questions correctly, the next questions will be harder, but there is still a ceiling on the difficulty level of questions, because there are three different levels of test, none of which contain the entire spectrum from easiest to most difficult.

    It is not uncommon for teachers and administrators to have an incomplete grasp of the meaning of MAP scores. This is a separate question from a grade skip into fourth grade. I would consider the content of third grade, as well as her MAP scores. For instance, in reading, third grade is still predominantly about mastering decoding skills and approaching reading fluency. Comprehension is just beginning to enter the curriculum standards. It seems likely that she has already mastered those skills. Writing, on the other hand, is a different matter, which is not assessed on MAP anyway. One hopes that school personnel recommending a grade skip have already taken that into consideration, with first-hand knowledge of her current writing skills, and of the expectations for a beginning fourth-grader. In math, there are essentially no new concepts introduced in third grade. Multiplication is usually introduced as a concept in the end of second grade, with the bulk of third grade spent acquiring mastery of multiplication facts, fluency with addition and subtraction facts, and application of addition and subtraction to up to 3- or 4-digit numbers. There are also a few stray side skills in there, such as time and money, very light data analysis (some graphs and charts), and a little bit of fractions, usually with common denominators. If you have concerns, take a look at your state or province's curriculum frameworks. Or you can ask your school to give her the end-of-grade test (or, more likely, a series of end-of-unit tests) out of the third-grade math book. But honestly, this is not one of the grade levels that I would worry about skipping. Not a lot of new concepts are presented between grade one and six, outside of the four basic operations, fractions, and decimals.

    Personal anecdote: I skipped half of third grade (transferred from third to fourth mid-year), and one of our children skipped all of fourth, without having been placed in SSA or any other above-grade-level instruction prior to the skip. No gaps noted in either case.

    I would say, yes, she does appear to pick up math skills quickly and easily, so acceleration should be a serious consideration.


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    For perspective, I have two pg fourth graders (DS8 was grade skipped last year, so now he's in fourth with his sister).

    DD9 scored 252 on the spring math MAP (2-5). According to the norm chart, that's nearly a standard deviation above the mean for eleventh grade. DS8 scored 238 on the same test.

    However, anyone that has worked with them both knows that DS has a deeper understanding of mathematics than DD. (No discredit to her, she's incredibly talented, math is just his thing.) To me, the test results mean that DD is better at the fourth- and fifth-grade standards. She's had more exposure to those than he has, because she's progressed largely linearly through a standard public school curriculum.

    DS attends the same public school, but did SSA in math from second to fourth grade last year, and is now in fourth grade, doing sixth- and seventh-grade math. There are a few gaps there (rounding, for example, which he makes him appalled every time it comes up--"Why wouldn't I want to just do the real math?".)

    However, on the SCAT for admission to CTY, his quantitative score was miles beyond hers. Also, on the KTEA, his math score was significantly beyond hers. Those tests show more of the higher-level skills.

    Last edited by Cnm; 04/19/18 02:55 PM.
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    In a common core aligned school, a skip of 2nd, 3rd, 4th grade math is not so much a big deal. It's primarily calculation and getting fluent in math facts. 5th grade is primarily about fractions and longer calculations (more digits). 6th grade is intoducing ratio, percent, proportion. 7th - 8th is prealgebra and pregeometry.

    My son skipped 2nd, 3rd, most of 4th grade math, no gaps observed and no difficulty with higher math grades. His best friend skipped 3rd and 4th grades and has no problems in math.

    Algebra can be taught very early. I mean, it already IS taught early. It first shows up as "number families". Like 2 + __ = 5, 5 - 3 = __ When my son was little, he struggled with math fact recall because of his slow processing speed. I would make up handwritten worksheets about "Mysterious Mr. X". I had made up a whole elaborate character Mr. X. to explain variables. I would disguise practicing times table facts as fact family style prealgebra to keep my son interested. 56 = 7X, for example.

    With that said, if it's not broke, don't fix it. Teaching math can put pressure on a situation. Math is difficult to differentiate. If the school doesn't support subject acceleration, what options remain? How far can she accelerate without negative effects? Does she even enjoy math? Is she satisfied in math class? If she is doing well socially and emotionally, acceleration may create more trouble than it's worth. If she is frustrated, bored, acting out, feeling misfit, that's the type of situation where accelerations (not just grade skipping, but any form of acceleration) may make a big difference.

    My son ended up accelerated further in math because it's the easiest subject to measure. Turns out he hates math, but even homeschool law in my state requires him to continue sequential instruction, so poor kid is going to sit through a lot of complicated math. smirk


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