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    Joined: Apr 2018
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    SoCAli Offline OP
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    Hi,
    This may be better suited for the 2E forum...
    We recently had DD(9) tested by a developmental psych at our local children's hospital. At her teacher's request we also had her tested for GATE.
    She was referred because we've been having increasing behavioral struggles at home - especially with homework, lots of negative statements, and social struggles at school and an incredible amount of fidgeting. DD is in 3rd grade we've seen an escalation of these issues since mid-2nd grade. DD has always been a bit quirky, but until 2nd grade she was rarely (if ever) defiant or aggressive. Even as a young child we could talk through any conflicts. She has always had a lot of energy, creativity and deep emotions.

    Our focus for the testing was identifying if ADHD was a factor (DS6 has inattention type ADHD) and possibly ASD. (I am a BCBA with many years experience working with children with ASD, and did not think ASD, but her teacher and pediatrician both thought it could be, so we looked into that too.)
    The day of testing she had a major cold and seemed anxious for the fist 30 minutes of testing - the verbal comp on the WISC-V. I felt like she was off during this part of the test - not her usual effusive self with responses.
    She also has had issues with fluid off and on in her ears for the past year that sometimes affects hearing - possibly a factor with testing and social relationships.

    Long story short, we got the results:
    Not ASD - but significant social deficits
    Some depression & anxiety
    Other Specified ADHD
    FSIQ - 125
    GAI - 127
    VCI - 124 (the area I felt she performed poorly on)
    VSI - 114
    FRI - 128
    WMI - 122
    PSI - 103 (Psych said that this could be a huge source of frustration for DD)

    We also got the school testing -
    OLSAT - SAI 132 (98 national age percentile)

    The psych gave us a bunch of information about 2E and recommended gifted sites and resources. She felt like this was a big factor and possibly a source of the other issues. She said depression and anxiety can look like adhd, but her Connors score on the computerized test also suggest some attention issues. She recommended therapy with someone who could address everything and not focus solely on the ADHD.

    After looking at the resources and comparing her scores I don't know if she fits as gifted. The scores don't seem to quite make the cut.

    On the other hand, the behavioral profile seems to fit.
    After poking around the forums I found the Ruf LOG mentioned and I think she fits well with in Level 2, maybe level 3, especially with regards to language development (talking at 8 months, sentences by 15 months & huge vocabulary). She has excelled in writing (won awards for poems in 2nd and 3rd grade), 1088 lexile in 2nd grade, maps scores in the 95-99th percentile in math, language & reading.

    This year her scores have flatlined or dropped and her behavior and frustrations have worsened. She also struggled with verbal and relational bullying by a classmate during the 1st half of the year, with some residual issues continuing, despite good intervention by her teacher and school. She likes school but especially loves to talk with her teacher.

    My goal right now is to get my happy sweet little girl back. The idea of her being gifted is nice because it seems to catch a lot of the issues that we have, but I don't want to delude myself or set her up for more frustration. I also want to make sure we address the other issues

    I'm curious if the scores could have been affected by the attention issues and anxiety or if the WISC controls for those issues. I'm also curious about her processing speed and if there's anything we can do to support that.
    I'm also not really sure where to go from here with the information we have, other than to find an appropriate counselor.
    She'll be in a GATE cluster class next year, but I don't think they get anything beyond the cluster.

    Thank you for any thoughts you have and for reading through this ridiculously long post!


    DD9 - 3rd Grade, DS6 - Kinder
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    aeh Offline
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    Welcome!

    Of course the scores could have been affected by attention, anxiety, having a cold, or being a young child (though usually scores are reasonably stable by this age). Or any number of other things. I will say that the first 30 minutes of an average WISC covers many other areas besides verbal comp (the first half of the test includes subtests from each of the five primary indices), so I wouldn't overinterpret the impact of settling into the test on any one index. Also, effusiveness is not necessary for scoring well. Typically, I see the most effects from anxiety and attention on the WMI and PSI tasks, and sometimes on other timed tasks, such as the VSI subtests.

    On the question of whether you are deluding yourself in identifying her as GT: well, your evaluator, who not only had the scores you've posted, but also her clinical observations and other assessment data (history, etc.), appears to identify her as such, based on the resources and directions you've been given by her! And GT doesn't mean everything necessarily comes easily, as I'm sure you know. So ID'ing giftedness is more likely to be helpful than harmful, but obviously isn't in isolation; she has strengths, and she has challenges (as we all do), and being clear-eyed about both is very far from being deluded.

    It sounds like some areas to ponder might include finding an understanding peer social group (perhaps the GT cluster will help with that), addressing the anxiety (probably ahead of the attention), and perhaps doing a little social-emotional learning/social skills training, mainly to get a little fluency with social-emotional problem-solving. I mention that last item because my observation is that, for many young people with relative weaknesses in processing speed versus reasoning ability, their social challenges are related to the increasing pace at which social communication occurs as NT children increase in social sophistication. Have an untimed conversation, and many of them can problem-solve quite adequately; they struggle to absorb, analyze, and apply these skills in real time. Overlearning can help, as can learning subtle strategies to slow down other people's social interactions (aka, stall), such as reflecting/reframing and placeholder phrases.


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    SoCAli Offline OP
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    Thank you aeh!
    I really appreciate your thoughts.

    DH and I have been feeling pulled in multiple directions with how to approach DD's struggles. I would like a framework to work within (anxiety, GT, ADHD, etc.) or at the very least, a starting point. Right now I feel like I'm staring at a tree trunk - no trees...no forest.

    I was able to talk with the examiner again and share my concerns. She reiterated her original impressions and felt confident in her identification as GT. She told me that DD was shaking during the block task and seemed extremely anxious until about 35-45 minutes in. I wasn't able to observe this from my vantage point but I did notice DD say, "I don't know" to questions she absolutely knew.

    Great ideas for areas to ponder! Anxiety is priority number 1.
    I've ordered a few workbooks and I'm looking into finding a different therapist. We've noticed a widening gap in her social skills over the past year, which fits with your explanation of the impact on processing speed on developing social fluency.
    My background is with children with ASD, so social cognition is on my radar. DD doesn't have issues with theory of mind or perspective taking, but fluency is an issue in peer situations - especially groups. Do you have any specific resources for developing social-emotional fluency? IYO, is this something we can do with her ourselves or should we look for external support?

    I started reading Emotional Intensity in Gifted Students. It has been informative.
    Thank you again!


    DD9 - 3rd Grade, DS6 - Kinder
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    You can probably start by working on her social skills fluency yourselves, since you already have some base skills in this area. All fluency skills are mostly a matter of overlearning. So giving her additional opportunities to rehearse social situations, perhaps practice them in scaffolded settings (e.g., with adults, more skilled children, prepared social partners), will help. She may also have some gaps that can be filled by direct instruction, as so much of social skill development is absorbed informally in everyday interactions. In her case, she may be missing some of the intermediate cause-and-effect steps because of the speed at which situations unfold, or drawing incorrect cause-and-effect conclusions based on incomplete information (for the same reason). Although long-term, obviously one wants her to gain skills for interacting in groups, it may be better for her naturalistic skill development and implementation if she continues to spend significant time in dyads or triads, where she is more likely to be to able catch all the social interaction components quickly and accurately enough to learn and experience success with social skills. Since fluency mainly comes from repetition/practice, and none of us particularly are motivated to practice aversive activities, keeping her social experience as positive as possible will be quite important.

    If you're comfortable running through social stories and doing social autopsies with her, those could also be valuable strategies. She doesn't have the same deficits in theory of mind that an ASD learner might have, but she is likely to have some of the same skills deficits--just for other reasons.


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    SoCAli Offline OP
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    Thank you! All great advice and a very doable starting point. Now to find the balance between mom & therapist and the time in our day.

    I'm comfortable with basic social skills. We've done a few social autopies / think-feel-do-say actvities and she enjoys them. That's an accurate description - no TOM deficits but some of the same skill deficits. My guess is this is what led to her teacher "diagnosing" her with ASD.



    DD9 - 3rd Grade, DS6 - Kinder

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