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    Joined: Apr 2013
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    Hag Offline OP
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    He recently took the KBIT for concerns regarding possible dyslexia (I think it's actually another visual issue but we'll see) - it's a required test before they will screen for dyslexia. His overall IQ per the screening was 139, with nonverbal 141 and verbal 125. But he has deficits that the KBIT doesn't capture.

    On the WISC, administered by a neuropsychologist, his subtest scores were:

    Similarities 98th percentile
    Vocabulary 91st
    Comprehension 63rd
    Block Design 25th
    Visual Puzzles 75th
    Matrix Reasoning 95th
    Figure Weights 98th
    Digit Span 63rd (digit span backward was only 16th though)
    Picture Span 95th
    Coding 25th
    Symbol Search 50th

    FSIQ was 125 and general ability, 125, so 90th and 95th percentile respectively.

    He also scored poorly on the NEPSY-II, a test of fine motor dexterity and visual motor integration, at the 9th percentile.

    Which of these deficits are likely to cause issues on the COGAT? I know there is a section where they have to be able to visualize what a sheet of folded paper will look like if you punch holes in it and open it up, and think that may cause some difficulties. I'm tempted to get him a hole punch so we can practice seeing what they look like. Is comprehension going to be a challenge on the COGAT? I'm concerned since he was only 63rd percentile. I believe he needs to be at the 98th percentile overall on the COGAT to join the G&T program. How can I help him in the next few weeks?

    His twin sister should easily qualify, but it's going to be hard on him if he does not (he is dealing with depression and anxiety since our recent move and is jealous of her for those things that come easily to her).

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    aeh Offline
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    Welcome back!

    First off, I definitely do not recommend prepping children for the CogAT, or any other aptitude or cognitive assessment.

    Secondly, his existing test scores do not suggest that visual-spatial abilities are truly an area of deficit. He did quite nicely on Visual Puzzles, which is probably the best predictor of visualizing holes in folded paper. Block Design may be a low estimate of his spatial abilities, based on your information on fine motor skills from the NEPSY.

    Thirdly, if the school system's GT programming is designed for those children who score well on their entrance criteria, then the benefit of attempting to enter students with marginal or clearly nonqualifying scores is questionable. GT and academically advanced programs historically involve a significant increase in volume of work, which may or may not be detrimental to a student with no more than average processing speed, with low fine motor skills (which often translate to writing challenges), and who is already struggling with stress. Knowing nothing about the program in question, I can't speak specifically to the risks in this case, but I would certainly encourage a thoughtful process.

    It may be that the more important concerns to address are those related to the suspected disability, which I see that you are already in the process of doing.


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    Hag Offline OP
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    Since his long-ago WPPSI, we have played games to work on improving processing speed and working memory - obviously it was more effective for the latter! He did obtain a dysgraphia diagnosis and will be tested for dyslexia soon - he still reverses some numbers and letters though reads well. To me giving him a paper and hole punch so he can experiment and learn what the resulting pattern will look like is similar to the games we've played. We're also getting an OT evaluation Monday to explore his dysgraphia and sensory issues. His behavior sometimes presents as ADHD or inattentive ADHD but it's likely more to do with sensory issues, the depression and anxiety. His testing did not indicate ADHD. The neuropsych feels that the G&T program will be very beneficial for him especially socially. Starting next year, they go to a different campus one day a week and after that, two days a week for the next two years. It's apparently a very cool, challenging program. This yr it is just one hour of pullout instruction a week so hopefully assuming he does qualify, we can work on his challenges before he is thrust into a new environment and very different curriculum (apparently it's very STEM oriented).

    Incidentally we just moved to tis area a few months ago. The old school was very traditional, did not feel he needed any extra help, and promoted a competitive environment among the students. This school is one of the state's top, does a lot of collaborative work, and he's struggling with the writing component. I'm actually convinced he has PANDAS - his writing was far better last year as well as his ability to transfer thought to paper - but that is another story and he did at least have a round of antibiotics recently so I'm hoping his titers are down. Gack. Too much to worry about!!

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    Hag Offline OP
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    I should add, regarding games, we have a game called Balance Beans which he's enjoyed in the past and may explain his high score on the Figure Weights section. I have not bought games specifically to prep him for one test or another but more in an effort to address weaknesses or simply to improve cognition. Besides that, Blue Orange and Gamewright games are fun. smile

    Apparently my previous post is awaiting moderation. This will make a little more sense when it posts!

    Last edited by Hag; 11/17/17 12:11 PM.
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    Welcome to the forums, Hag. I'm a parent of a teen who has dyspraxia and dysgraphia, discovered when he was in early elementary. I'm not a professional, so take my advice only as that of a parent smile

    What were the neuropsych's conclusions re the discrepancies in your ds' scores? Was it a private neuropsych, and was it completed before you sought help through the school? (I'm guessing from your OP that your ds is being evaluated for dyslexia through the school).

    If the neuropsych report made recommendations for testing accommodations, you can request that the school honor those accommodations when administering the Cogat. If the school doesn't, you can use that to question the Cogat results. Is this a good or necessary thing to do? I would ask for the accommodations if the Cogat will be used for screening for the gifted program, but not if the purpose of the Cogat is to somehow help with the evaluation for dyslexia.

    I'll also add that the Cogat is a learned ability test, not an innate ability test. Prior exposure to certain concepts (or lack of exposure) may result in the test missing a student who's gifted - my ds scored significantly lower on the Cogat than he had previously scored on the WISC, and as I read up on it (because I was beyond surprised lol!) I realized his experience isn't entirely unusual. When I asked him about the test right after he'd taken it, he was very excited to tell me about a few questions that he'd not ever heard of before but and used his logic to figure out (and it was very good logic lol!)... but his answers were off base simply because of lack of prior exposure to the concepts. I'd trust the WISC scores above Cogat. But again... I'm not a professional!

    If your ds doesn't score high enough on the Cogat to qualify for the gifted program, and you feel it's a good fit for him, you can still advocate to get him placed in it. But I'd first want to focus on understanding the challenges he's facing - once you understand the root of the challenges and have a road map re how to remediate and accommodate, then you'll be in a much more solid place to both make a decision about the best program for him and be much better prepared to advocate to get him into the program.

    While I agree with aeh re understanding the demands of the program you'll be placing your child in, I'd also add that for my 2e ds, being placed in a non-gifted classroom in elementary school was like listening to fingernails slowly scratching a chalkboard all day long for him - not only was he having to deal with his challenges, he was also bored to tears. The place he functions best is in a gifted classroom with accommodations. He needs accommodations no matter what type of classroom he's in, but he works and functions much better when the level of intellectual challenge is appropriate, and when he doesn't have to wait for students who need more time to understand concepts to catch on.

    Re anxiety, for my ds, knowing that he needed help and not receiving it prior to his diagnosis took a huge toll on his self-esteem, and caused a huge deal of anxiety. Once we had a diagnosis, were working on remediation and accommodation, and once he saw that there were adults trying their best to help him, his anxiety disappeared. You mentioned your ds is dealing with depression and anxiety due to a recent move; I wouldn't discount that his hidden 2e may be at the root of at least some of his anxiety.

    Good luck as you look for answers!

    polarbear


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    aeh Offline
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    You're right, the two posts make a whole lot more sense read together!

    So what I'm hearing is that the GT program is more of a supplement and extension than it is a replacement curriculum, which makes it less worrisome in terms of overburdening him with output demands.

    BTW, is the school (I assume it's the school) planning to administer another WISC, or just achievement or phonological processing assessments? Make sure the next examiner knows when the previous evals were conducted, and what tests were given, as another WISC at this time may be invalid (if it's been <24 months since the previous one). Curious that the neuropsych didn't look at dyslexia at the same time as dysgraphia (or maybe you're still working through the process?).


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