Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Learning Environments private school for gifted Kindergartener?

My 5 year old Kindergartener tested in the gifted range (142 on WPPSI IV). He is quite advanced in reading, logic and math. He reads at the level of a 3rd grader and does Math at the level of a 2nd/3rd grader without much help at home. His Montessori classroom teacher whom we deeply respect and adore is advocating private schooling for 1st grade and beyond as she thinks the small classroom size will give him extra attention and care given that he is emotionally very sensitive and does not readily socialize.

We started making inquiries with some top private schools in Main Line near Philadephia. But we learned that none offers gifted education or accelerated instruction in the lower school. There seem to be many options for accelerating in the middle and a rich variety of AP courses in the upper school. The schools have a rich curriculum and a record of producing academic achievers. They claim that they focus on "all-rounded" education in the lower years (including arts, athletics, etc.) but I am concerned about not challenging my child enough in the lower school years, especially in math. We are debating if we should instead try the gifted programs in some of the top public schools in the area.

Have you had experience with educating a gifted child in a top private school (esp lower school) with a curriculum common to the student pool? How would you compare gifted public education with the "all-rounded" education at private schools?

Thanks!

You're right to be hesitant to choose a school that doesn't have a dedicated gifted stream or an ability to personalize learning to the individual student on a subject-by-subject basis.

Personally, I've opted for a small Montessori-flavoured private school for my DS6 that allows a great degree of individualization by subject. The small class size and flexibility of the staff in meeting my DS' needs as an individual learner have been paramount in his happiness and achievement of a good academic fit. At young ages, my personal opinion is that administrator and teacher openness and flexibility to individualization trump a school's overall reputation in terms of fit.

ETA: I should add this--achieving a good academic fit goes a long way to supporting social and emotional success. It can be stressful for a young child to experience friction between his/her needs and the classroom offering if there's a wide disparity. Alleviating that stress and providing an appropriate level of challenge can be a successful springboard to helping a child open up and thrive on the social front.

Good luck, and welcome to the forum!

Not a private school experience, but my DD's K experience was extraordinarily damaging due to the kind of severe disconnect between classroom offering and cognitive needs that aquinas describes above. The only differentiation offered set my DD to working in isolation (she's extremely social) with no instruction (self-guided learning is not a realistic ask for a 5yo) while the rest of the class engaged in group activities. To say she was miserable and dreaded going to school each day would be putting it mildly. This was coming from a child who entered K extremely excited to learn, and who had emerged from an extremely rewarding pre-K program where her gifts were fully appreciated - for instance, the teacher allowed DD to take over daily story time.

It's going to be extremely dependent on the school, the teaching quality, and the administration's priorities and flexibility.

Our kids attend an amazing private school that offers no gifted programming and highly discourages grade acceleration. The teaching staff is second to none, the student body is extremely bright/gifted, and the teaching level in general is very high. For example, my K'er last year got second grade math in class with the other bright math kids. He probably could have done a higher level, but he was engaged and happy, and as a social child prefers working with other children. Our school caters to very bright children, and mine have been engaged and stretched in enjoyable ways without any need for pushing.

A very good private will be better than an average public school, and a very good public school will be better than an average private school.

In general, if private school is a financial stretch that will limit extracurricular activities, I'd say it's not worth it and better to find a very good public school. If private school is not a financial burden and you can be assured of teacher quality and engagement, it's worth considering in comparison to your public school choices.

Additionally, an engaging, challenging classroom is always better than a once-a-week pullout. My preferences for kids are: with age-mates getting appropriate challenge, failing that, accelerated to get appropriate challenge, failing that, a pull out. Some children may need all of those, but don't assume a once-a-week pullout will make a difference for a child.

I think it is very rare to find a school, private or public, that will challenge a gifted kid in the elementary grades. That being said, I think a gifted child can be happy and thrive at school, either public or private.

There are a number of considerations. I don't need you to answer them and reveal information about yourself, but some things I would consider are:
- What is your public school district?
- Do you have the financial means to send your child to private school?
- If you could send your child to private school for a limited number of years, would it be better to send him in the younger years or in high school?
- Is the math challenge in school really needed? Or can you supplement the math outside of school?

I would consider these questions because there are several good school districts on the Main Line. For the most part, the teachers are good, though elementary school teachers are a bit of a mixed bag. The real problem is the administration. Many of them have their own agenda, and it isn't typically challenging the individual student. It is all about appearances and rankings and ratings. Middle and high school teachers do care about students and will often advocate for them.

Private schools, at least most I know, cost $25K-30K/yr for early elementary grades, then about $35K/yr for high school. That can add up, especially if you have other kids that might attend private school as well.

While I attended a Main Line private school K-12, we didn't have the means to send our kids to private school all the way through. We sent them from Pre-K through a portion of elementary. The foundational years were important to us, but I know others who went for the high school years, and it turned out well for them. I do think that the college admissions would have turned out better for my older two (youngest is in 8th grade) if they had a private school college counselor. They have connections.

Many gifted and bright kids will go through math (or rather, arithmetic) quickly. Public schools can actually be more accommodating with math. My older two had kids in their class who exhausted the high school math courses by the end of eighth grade. That means those kids were finished with multi-variable calculus and linear algebra. They took college math classes starting in 9th. Private schools don't all accommodate in this way, allowing younger kids to attend high school classes, and then taking college courses.

It isn't necessary to go racing through math. My middle kid did not consider herself to be a great math student (not taking college classes while in high school), but is now majoring in math (as well as a non-STEM major). Often the kids who race through math don't take full advantage of other sorts of courses. My eldest and middle kid took two languages through AP. Middle kid also took linear algebra in high school. Both also played varsity sports and a year-round travel sport. And did other stuff.

And perhaps most importantly, at a good public or private school, your child will have academic peers. The opportunity to be around other kids near or at his level is important. My kids are not profoundly gifted, though they know kids who are. My eldest says that the high school kids she hung out with are brighter than most she met in college. My kids have found the chance to discuss and debate things with really bright kids to be valuable.

We put the older two through the process of gifted identification when they were in middle school (to get automatic entry to a certain course in high school). The gifted program in our district is not much of anything, and very limited in elementary. The district makes you jump through all sorts of hoops and they will not accept outside testing - they administer the IQ test of their choosing.

Good luck with your search for a school.

I’d go so far as to say that you might have to go with “least visibly damage”.

In my experience (I am not in the US, so take it for what it’s worth), it’s not so much about public or private but about whether the administration as well as the actual classroom teachers are flexible and accepting of the concept of giftedness both in theory (as in, yes gifted kids exist, and yes they have different needs as opposed to “all kids are gifted” or “we don’t believe in giftedness”) and in its practical manifestation as in, they accept yours as opposed to “she’s not as smart as you think” or “some kids may be gifted but I’ve never had one in MY classroom” or “all the children in our school are so advanced it won’t make a difference”.

Private schools we visited (and yes, that included a Montessori school) tended to actually be less flexible than public schools in outlook (“this is what we do and how we do it and we are great at it and will work for every gifted kid, too”) even though they had better resources and fewer children in the classroom whereas public schools were more like “we’d love to meet these kids needs, but we just can’t.”

We went for the public option for preschool, a parochial option for elementary and a public option for middle and high school again. Each time, we liked the way teachers and administrators were openly accepting of both the idea of giftedness and the idea that our kid might be, and honest about their limitations.

You may not be able to make academic growth a priority, but I’d say it isn’t strictly necessary. One poster once put it “if he’s happy, engaged and learning, it might be enough.” As long as he’s not stunted, belittled, bullied. An emphasis on things such as art arts and athletics might actually be fine because it does not force kids into academic lockstep or isolation. You can always introduce academic challenge at home and bide your time until more challenging school options open up - the important thing is to avoid damage.

Everything Tigerle said - excellently put!

You are really looking for two things: flexibility and open-mindedness.

As Tigerle notes, most private schools seem to think their program is so awesome, they actually tend to be more rigid than public. So hunt for the exceptions, whether public or private. You're looking not for "the best", but for the one which is the best match for your unique kid, at this particular time. Also, be aware that many schools that focus heavily on high achievement also tend to place top value on compliance and conformity - which is an uncomfortable fit for some (but by no means all) gifted kids.

x10

What I suggest is to find a school with energetic and motivated teachers. Teachers are what makes a day in school count for my son rather than the school policies. If a teacher has the energy and motivation to help your child, they will find a way to include content that challenges your child at his level. If you advocated and got provisions for differentiation, it is entirely upto the teacher how it is implemented. We tried the "top public" school with sky high standardized testing scores and found out that the teachers thought that my son got "enough" academic rigor already, were unwilling to teach advanced content, were focused on classroom management issues, were not motivated to go above and beyond the textbook content, were lackluster about implementing differentiation. You may be lucky and have a better experience at your local public schools, but anecdotally, what I experienced is the norm in my area.

In our case, we found the motivated teachers in a private school setting. He is in a school where he can walk into a teacher's room and ask questions and they will be answered. My son is a curious kid with tons of questions that go beyond the scope of a lesson plan. He is uniformly curious in all subjects and his interest is not limited to certain subjects. The teachers at his school are subject matter experts and have domain knowledge to go deep into topics. That is what made the difference for my son. Except in math, most other subjects are hard to quantify when it comes to difficulty - for example, a child can learn a lot about plant cells from a botany major and a lot about European History from a teacher who is a history major even in 2nd grade. Those things become a possibility in a private elementary school setting. So, focus more on the teachers and look them up on linkedin, shadow their classrooms, ask about their philosophy of teaching etc. Just spend a little time on researching the schools before you make a decision.

It's hard to ensure a good fit between your child and classroom teacher year after year but as it has already been said, that is what matters the most.

Our DD8 is in 3rd grade at a small, high-performing, private elementary school. She has been there since kindergarten. The students are bright. There is some level of differentiation. Even so, the curriculum does not meet her academic needs in areas where she is HG+ (she is not globally HG+).

I’d also mention, though, that we chose DD’s school for many of the reasons identified by your DS’s teacher. DD was/is sensitive. She didn’t socialize readily. She also had sensory processing difficulties and tends toward anxiety (not factors in your post). We thought she would benefit from small class size and individual attention. She has. The way she's wired hasn’t changed, but her confidence and coping skills have grown in that environment so she is better able to function in others. It was the “soft start” she needed and our best option for her early education. We don’t have a gifted program in our public schools.

And it may be time to reassess – DD is starting to fool around in class, and when I ask her why she tells me it’s because her brain is bored and needs some excitement.

Good luck in your decision.

Lots of great advice above that I'll try not to repeat.

Private schools vary a lot and public school gifted programs vary a lot so it is impossible to say what will be the best fit at this point. Some things (many of which have already been said...) I'd look for

1. flexibility - schools that brush your questions/concerns away with easy "we've had lots of gifted students" and think they have all of the answers... often don't. Keep asking questions, ask for examples and specifics. One of my favourite advocacy moments was in a VP's office many years ago when I was assured that differentiation would solve all of my DS's problems. I asked for a specific example in science (he was in grade 1 and would sometimes get us to read university physics books for bedtime stories....). Her example - "while the other kids are learning that plants use air, water and soil to grow, he can learn that it is called photosynthesis" She even said photosynthesis real slow to make it sound more amazing. I smiled and knew we weren't on the same page.

If the school says they can work at their own level - ask if they have any examples of kids working several grades above level? How is that handled? Is gifted enrichment viewed as an add-on or extra? - after you do all of your normal work THEN you can do an extra worksheet (oh boy!!!).

Is their way of accommodating isolating? Is the solution to have the child sit in the corner and teach themselves grade x+y math while the rest of the class does grade x.

2. peers - some gifted kids are great at blending in with others and/or have a variety of interests that aren't all "out there". Others stick out and NEED intellectual peers to discuss their odd passions with at recess. If your child is one of the later types then the potential peer group can be key.

3. what is the gifted program and who is in it. What is the criteria for entrance? Is it focused on the high achieving type of gifted kids? (that is fine if that is what your child is but throwing a 2E kid into that might not be so great).

What does the program actually do that is different than the regular program? Have the teachers taken extra courses on gifted children and their needs? Is there a high turnover or has this teacher been doing this for years?

4. teachers and their fit with your child - as many have stated they can be the difference between fantastic and disaster.

Many thanks to you all for the nuggets of wisdom.

Some of the best prep schools (tuition > 25K for 1st grade) we visited had snobbish responses. One school head said, "We have many kids doing better than 142. We have a K child who tested at 160. (Nothing about a differentiated approach)." Another head said, "IQ doesn't really mean success. You need all rounded education if you want to go to the ivies". Yet another said, "Our curriculum is structured very well (without individualization); that is the reason we have so many high achievers".

Their responses made me feel apologetic for my DS's abilities. Looks like this is going to be a long journey with many trials and errors!

LOL @ the snarky responses you've received because that is pretty much what DD's school would have said.

At the end, we went with the school because despite all the negative aspects, we thought she'd be happier there than anywhere else, at least during the early years.

The snarky responses are the norm for the Main Line. Not restricted to schools...it is everywhere, just part of the culture. Think of the "Housewives of " show. (They were considering doing the show on the Main Line, and we know a "housewife" that was scheduled to be part of the show...never happened.)

Despite the snarky comments, the schools do have a good number of gifted kids. If you want less of that attitude, you might try a Friends school. Snark and Quaker don't really go together.

And keep in mind things change. That school you thought was perfect may no be next year.