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    #240310 11/01/17 05:27 AM
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    mom123 Offline OP
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    I have a 12 year old (7th grader) who I was thinking of having take the AMC 8 exam. The issue is that she has not done very well on the pre-test (scores of 6 and 8).... so now I am thinking of maybe not having her take it. I was wondering if anyone has any experience with this exam? Are there things that you can do to increase score (practice) that would help in only 2 weeks, or do scores tend to be very stable. Any insight would be appreciated!!

    On a separate note, I am concerned as to why her scores are so low.... would this point to maybe problems with what she is being (or not being) taught at school?

    mom123 #240313 11/01/17 07:36 AM
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    She will definitely benefit from practicing prior year exams that are easily found with a google search. I would not focus too much on how well she performs but just on the experience of taking the AMC test. If she does not really like math then I certainly would not force her to take it.

    The AMC will cover topics like number theory, counting and probability that she probably did not learn in school but if she is interested it might help her see what else is out there. The Art of Problem Solving has many resources that will help her if she becomes interested in doing better next year.

    mom123 #240316 11/01/17 11:08 AM
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    You can lookup the stats per age group on the MAA site, but 8 is very close to the average score for 7th grade. So your 12yo is basically on track.

    I think it would send the wrong message to not take the test. Hopefully, it will be a fun, motivating experience and you'll have a baseline to compare for growth if you retake it in 8th grade.

    Also in 2 weeks I don't think you can radically change your score after becoming familiar with the format, but over a year if you're interested by looking at variety of problems you can definitely grow.


    mom123 #240318 11/01/17 12:17 PM
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    mom123 Offline OP
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    Thanks so much. I can't believe how hard this test is. Most grading has suffered such grade inflation - but it seems like the majority of students will score less than 50% correct on this one. That's tough! I like the test because it is very applied - it requires you to think about numbers differently and apply quantitative concepts to novel situations.... but I think that she probably does not get much exposure to that kind of thinking at school.

    From the two practice exams I looked at, it seems like it starts off kind of easy, then gets harder as the exam goes on. Is that always the case? It would seem like a good strategy for someone who is only scoring an 8 might be to focus on the first half of the exam and try to get as many correct as possible there...and if question 25 seems easy, it is probably because you are doing it wrong.

    mom123 #240319 11/01/17 12:36 PM
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    Practice helps, lots of practice helps a lot . The test is suppose to challenge even the best students. Most of the time 50% is a good score. My ds has taken the AMC 8 since 4th grade. He is now a freshman. He got steadily better.

    Does your daughter have a math counts team. If so this is the type of problems they practice on in Math Counts. Great practice.

    Let her know it is about taking the test not the score. You get better but you have to put it in perspective.

    It will also be good practice for the AMC 10 and 12 later on.

    mom123 #240321 11/01/17 01:47 PM
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    Yes, the problems typically get harder as you go along. Sometimes the questions get misplaced and 15 could be harder than 22 but in general they get harder. The tests are often discussed at length on the AoPS forums and AoPS has databases of the old tests with detailed solutions...oftentimes several solutions.

    Check out the AMC 10's and 12's or the AIME...those get pretty tough.

    One more thing, recent tests tend to be quite a bit harder than tests from 6-7 years ago...this holds true for all of the MAA exams, I think.

    mom123 #240363 11/06/17 02:38 PM
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    What is the benefit of taking the AMC 8?

    mom123 #240365 11/06/17 03:10 PM
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    mom123 #240368 11/07/17 04:50 AM
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    You can find AMC 8 problems from 1985-2016 in the AoPS (Art of problem Solving) contest wiki .

    If you prefer to download pdfs of problem sets, follow this AoPS link.

    marigold82076 #240454 11/13/17 10:40 PM
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    Originally Posted by marigold82076
    What is the benefit of taking the AMC 8?
    My DD13 has derived several benefits from getting involved in competitions (Mathcounts, AMC8/10) - not necessarily the test itself but the process and preparation.

    1 - She is being challenged. She's in grade-accelerated honors math (has to walk across campus the the Intermediate HS each day to class) and has missed a single point the entire 1st grade period. Tests (100, 100, 100), quizzes, homework, etc., in total. But she's taking an AoPS AMC10 prep class and is solidly in the middle of her class. The homework stretches her to think, work hard, be creative, fail, try again, etc.

    2 - She's learning outside the "normal" curriculum. While breezing through Algebra, Geometry, Algebra II in school she had also studied Number Theory, Probability, Game Theory, etc. Perhaps we'd do this anyway, but the various competitions put purpose, deadline, objective to the work.

    3 - She's solving hard problems. Looking at problems 15-25 on these tests, they require creative problem solving and critical thinking. They don't require study of advanced topics - they only cover through standard grade 8/10 math - but require creativity and ingenuity. In the real world, it's the hard problems that need to be solved. Learning to solve hard problems with basic tools will make it easy when you need to solve hard problems with more advanced tools.

    Of course, there needs to be an innate interest in the topics. Forcing a kid to take the test and study when the child isn't interested is not going to be beneficial. But the tests, especially when they are challenging and spark curiosity, can be a catalyst to new opportunities.

    Speaking for myself - AoPS allowed me to finally hunt down the early 1980's AHSME (precursor to the AMC12) exam I took and find the solution to a problem that has been bugging me for 30+ years. I was high scorer in our school (still have my award), but that one problem I couldn't solve stuck with me all these years. That's the level of interest competitive math can instill in those with an interest.

    Last edited by Cranberry; 11/13/17 10:51 PM.
    mom123 #240455 11/13/17 10:49 PM
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    You can look at the statistics, including % that get each question correct, at AMC's statistics site. The first 5 questions are typically answered by 60-70% of students. Questions 21-25, about 20% on the AMC8, 2-10% on the 10 and 12.

    18 of 25 is in the top 5%, only 0.2% get perfect scores. It is the opposite of school grade inflation.

    Last year's 7th grade female average was 8.5. The year before, 7.8. And I suspect most schools are like ours - it's only 20'ish kids who take the test, and they tend to be the advanced math students. So a score of 8 is probably an average "top student" score for 7th grade.

    Last edited by Cranberry; 11/13/17 10:52 PM.
    mom123 #240456 11/14/17 04:43 AM
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    My son enjoyed taking the AMC8 in his middle school. This year he is trying to introduce the AMC10 and AMC12 at his high school but there is very little interest. Mu Alpha Theta would not agree to proctor it or get involved so we found a teacher instead. Now he is trying to find kids that will take the test. It looks like it could be just him ;-(

    Too bad he is not trying to get some sort of sports competition going as I am sure there would be numerous participants.

    AOPS has been wonderful for my son and many other kids!

    Cranberry #240463 11/15/17 08:52 AM
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    Cranberrys 4 point answer is exactly it!!

    My son went to a small middle school where there was heavy participation in math counts and heavy participated in just about every contest local and national they could find. The whole middle school took the AMC8 in class. Everyone trying out for MathCounts took the AMC 10A. The top kids also to the 10B. In hopes to qualify for AIME. After every contest the kids would break up in groups and compare solutions.

    He is now a freshman at a very big high school where there is very little interest in math also.

    Last weekend I drove him 2 hours to a University that hosted a High School Math competition. He was the only one from his school to participate. The school said they did participate in this contest but apparently they don’t so we signed up the school ourselves and he went. It was good for his soul to run into all the other kids and coaches he had been participating in contest with for the last few years.

    I am not going to count on the high school to proctor the AMC 10 and 12 and have made other arrangements to take it at another location.


    Originally Posted by Cranberry
    You can look at the statistics, including % that get each question correct, at AMC's statistics site. The first 5 questions are typically answered by 60-70% of students. Questions 21-25, about 20% on the AMC8, 2-10% on the 10 and 12.

    A big reason there are lower percentage of answers on the last 5 questions on the 10 and 12 vs 8 other than being harder question. There is a strategy to follow when taking the 10 and 12. There is no penalty for guessing on the 8. On the 10 and 12 you get 1.5 points for leaving the question blank. 6 points for a correct answer and 0 for incorrect answer. Some kids will leave them blank. Cut off scores for AIME was 112.5 for the 10A and 96 for the 12A.

    Approximately the top 2.5% of the AMC 10 and the top 5% of the AMC 12 qualify to take the AIME. This seems to be the prize for the kids who have worked hard.

    mom123 #240480 11/15/17 10:16 PM
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    My DD started taking AMC 8 in 4th grade, mostly because her brother was taking it. I seem to recall that scores at the lower end can be unstable because she scored a 10 that first year despite getting 6-8 on a couple of old practice tests. It may also be that your DD doesn't want to focus and is making careless errors or rushing too much trying to finish.

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