Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Regions Need feedback on Portland public schools

We live in San Francisco and are relocating to Portland next summer. Our kids are currently in private school but we are struggling with the cost and we would like to try public school. I am writing to see if people have recommendations for neighborhood schools and also any feedback on Access Academy, Winterhaven and Sunnyside Environmental School. We like urban living and are interested in living in the city (probably the northeast neighborhoods), not in Lake Oswego or Beaverton.

A bit about our kids, in case that helps:

We have a 7.5 year old who was tested before kindergarten (as part of an admissions process). He had exactly average processing speed but VCI scores in the 140s and performance scores in the high 120s. He was anxious during the test and refused to finish parts of the test but still scored in the 99th percentile. The administering psych doesn’t think his scores were accurate but we don’t think he’s profoundly gifted, either. He has Tourettes and suffers from anxiety. He struggles with handwriting a bit - and also with writing stories/essays. His math and reading levels are above grade level but it’s hard to judge how much because his school claims it differentiates but doesn’t do any out of level testing. I believe his reading is at least 3-4 grade levels above his classmates’. He is an enthusiastic student and highly creative. He is completely obsessed with science and engineering. He is also very good at complex math/logic puzzles (his dad is a mathematician and they are very alike). He is introverted and has experienced difficulty connecting with other kids but does have a couple of friends. When he was younger he participated in a social skills group and the psych there said he would do best if he had an appropriate (gifted) peer group.

Our five year old just started kindergarten. We’ve never had him tested but he seems even more precocious than this brother because he doesn’t seem to struggle with anything. He taught himself to read as a four year old, seems to pick up math intuitively, is pretty good at chess and has excellent visual-spatial skills. As a two year old he could do lego sets for 5-7 year olds and by the time he was four he could do any lego technic set by himself. He especially loves art and spends hours every day drawing elaborate, finely detailed drawings. He is social and outgoing.

Our kids are in a private school that we like. It is project based with an emphasis on STEAM and social/emotional skills. Our kids are happy but I don’t think my oldest child is being challenged. My youngest is being challenged but that’s because we got him into kindergarten early and he’s a year younger than most students.

We are looking for a school where our kids will be academically challenged and where they can find peers who share their interests. Ideally, the school would also have a good social/emotional curriculum and rich arts program, too.

We intend to apply to Access Academy but I haven't been able to learn much about students' experience there. I’m also not sure how difficult it is to actually get a spot, assuming our kids qualified for admission. Winterhaven also looks like a potentially good fit, as it seems similar to our current school. Does anybody here have any direct knowledge about these schools? Also, if we got into a neighborhood school like Alameda, Laurelhurst or Beverly Cleary, how would a moderately gifted, creative kid do in one of those schools? Are there any other schools/neighborhoods we should consider?

I'd appreciate any insight or feedback you can give. Thank you!

No idea but a 7.5 year old struggling with essays sounds like a school problem not a child problem.

Really? Tell me more. Last year, in first grade, when my son was given a writing assignment he often daydreamed and only wrote one or two sentences while others wrote more than twice as much. He required multiple check-ins and prompting from the teacher with writing assignments. When I asked my son what was happening, my explained that he had so many ideas, he wasn't sure which one to write. I talked to him about brainstorming and assumed that he had some executive functioning issues and needed support with scaffolding/organizing his ideas. I even wondered if he had inattentive ADD because his teacher was saying he daydreamed a lot and that she felt he was under performing, "given how brilliant he is." I also know that my son doesn't enjoy handwriting and thought that might have been slowing him down. He's in second grade now and he seems to have much better executive functioning than last year.

Do you think the expectations were too high? The other kids, who were bright but not necessarily gifted, seemed to be able to meet the expectations so I thought they were appropriate. Or maybe I misunderstand your comment.

I think in this case, "essay" means something other than what you're thinking. I remember my DD getting such assignments, as early as K. They just wanted a small paragraph at most, and encouraged "developmental spelling." It drove perfectionist DD insane, because she wanted to do it right but the skills weren't yet there for what she wanted to do, and I saw the exercise as, "Let's let the children build up bad habits now that will be hard to break later."

I tend to agree with puffin that it's a school problem.

The ability to write develops in stages: first you have to recognize letters, then form them (e.g. write a line of as and a line of bs). Then words/short sentences (e.g. Write "My name is Val" on each line of the paper). This is all K-1 stuff, and part of the goal is coordination of movement and learning how to hold the pencil. I remember how writing made our hands sore in first grade. Loosening up on the pencil and a better grip helped, but I suspect that part of the process was strengthening hand muscles.

Second graders can write a few sentences on their favorite holiday/color/etc. or stories. This lets them develop their imaginations and doesn't try to force organizational and other skills that an "essay" on, say, Martin Luther King or George Washington requires.

So IMO, asking kids to write paragraphs or essay in first grade is also asking too much. Again, this isn't just because of cognitive stuff, but because of neuromuscular stuff and general development. I also think that kids need to be allowed time to focus on straightforward tasks at that age, rather than pushing them too quickly into complex ones like essays. Some skills need to be built up in ordered stages, and writing (like maths) is high on that list. So is learning how to concentrate on stuff that isn't immediately fascinating to you: you have to take it one step at a time. You can't learn long division until you know addition, multiplication and subtraction. Ditto for essays. You can't do it until you've learned a lot of other skills that are part and parcel of them.

Unfortunately, this kind of assignment is trendy in private schools and competitive public schools (I've told the story about the kindergartner we knew who had to do homework, including essays, in the hospital after surgery while hooked up to an IV during Thanksgiving break). I believe this is due to our hypercompetitive society giving rise to getting kids "ahead" or "challenging them." Again, this is only my opinion, but I don't think this kind of thing benefits kids --- you can't skip some stuff. Okay, some kids who are globally HG+ will move more quickly through certain stages of writing (meaning, IQ AND fine motor/other skills are way ahead of the curve), but those stages still have to be covered. And that will be 1-2 kids per class, but unlikely in every grade.

This idea of essay writing in K-4, as a matter of course, impinges on other areas that are just as important as academics. Imagination, building stuff with clay, telling stories: these things are all very important.

As for your son, does his hand hurt when he writes? Does he have overall fine motor disabilities, problems with low muscle tone, or does the Tourette's interfere? Or is it just a case of "I don't really want to do this," which could be ... normal behavior for a seven-year-old?

I really appreciate this thoughtful discussion.

@Val: My son does complain that his hand is sore after writing. While he has always been fine with repetitive fine motor activities like Legos or sewing or using tools, he resisted writing or drawing until he was five. He had a hard time switching from capital to small letters. Now that he has the small letters down, he often forgets initial capitals. His handwriting is not sloppy but he pauses before each letter and it doesn't seem to flow. His teachers note that handwriting is an area of relative weakness for him but they have insisted that it is grade appropriate and not something we need to get OT for.

My son's first grade teacher had a special ed background so she really focused on his weakness- handwriting. I know it's something he needs to work on but I always urged letting him spend some time on activities that challenge and excite him (problem solving, being creative, etc.) instead of spending all his extra time trying to improve his handwriting. This year's teacher seems to think lots of young boys struggle with handwriting and that it's not a big deal. He said that such kids often do better with cursive writing and that learning keyboarding will also help.

The Tourettes mostly manifests itself as verbal tics and some grimacing/facial tics but I have read that handwriting problems are common in kids with TS. Unfortunately, our pediatrician doesn't seem particularly concerned/interested in exploring how TS might affect my son, as he insists there isn't really anything to be done about it.

We don't want a high-achieving or competitive school. But we do want a school that can provide support where needed (and we still aren't clear on what support might be helpful!) and challenge where necessary but also let our creative, idiosyncratic kids stay excited about learning. My older son adores the gardening teacher and he spends recess tinkering with her and building a solar oven and structures with cob bricks. It's the highlight of his day. I am sad that he is unlikely to have that kind of experience at his next school but if it is possible to find that in Portland, I want to!

PPS does its lottery process for non-neighborhood schools in late winter/early spring and it is only available to current residents, so you are not going to be able to apply to ACCESS, Winterhaven, or Sunnyside Environmental for 2018-2019 if you're moving in the summer. Also, all of these schools have limited intake opportunities. ACCESS currently builds its cohort in the first and third grades, Winterhaven in kindergarten and sixth, and Sunnyside in kindergarten and sixth. The only time there are other spots is when students leave the school. Here's a PDF with the slots that were available for this year's lottery:
https://www.pps.net/cms/lib/OR01913...0MS%20Transfer%20Slots_Final_English.pdf

PPS is currently planning on converting a number of its K-8 schools in NE Portland to K-5 and creating some new 6-8 middle schools starting in fall of 2018. So you should definitely pay attention to these new maps if you're looking for housing in the near future and want to attend a certain neighborhood school. Real estate agents are not always super reliable when it comes to knowledge or disclosure of upcoming changes. Here is the summary of the proposed changes:
https://www.pps.net/cms/lib/OR01913...ddle%20School%20Transition_R10_print.pdf

OregonLive has the most recent school report cards searchable here:
http://schools.oregonlive.com/

You aren't going to find any public schools in Portland with gardening teachers. Alameda, Laurelhurst, and Beverly Cleary have the highest concentrations of TAG kids on the east side. You should probably research the pros and cons of the K-8 vs K-5 and middle school models and decide which you think would be more appropriate for your sons.

Thanks for the detailed information, @ChaosMitten. My husband thinks that there is a separate lottery process (and perhaps a few slots) for families moving into the district past the spring deadline. He recalls reading about it but hasn't been able to find that information when I demanded to see it. It seems unlikely to me. Have you heard anything about that? Our kids will be in first and third grade next year so it might be a good year to try for Access. Do you or anybody you know have personal experience with the program?

There is not a separate lottery process for newcomers. There is a petition process, but I doubt that would work at any of the schools you mentioned since they are in very high demand and will have a waiting list after the lottery. Also, being new to the area and not having even attempted to make a neighborhood school work is unlikely to sway the district to grant you special dispensation. ACCESS Academy has approximately 350 students in grades 1-8. The prerequisites for entry are a single 99th percentile score on math achievement, verbal achievement, or cognitive, plus "demonstrated need." What, exactly, demonstrated need actually means is nebulous and depends on the capricious whims of whomever is in charge of the selection process for a given year. You should absolutely not count on your sons being able to attend a non-neighborhood school for 2018. The only certainty you can possibly have is to move into the catchment area of the neighborhood school you want your sons to attend.

PPS has no district-wide TAG services. Outside of ACCESS, the district does nothing aside from testing and identifying kids to minimally comply with state law. ACCESS only exists because the district was sued many years ago. It was originally slated to expand to a first through twelfth grade program, but has never had any real support from the school district.

The prevailing opinion of those in charge seems to be that gifted education is somewhere between inequitable and racist and that gifted kids already get 95+% on all the standardized tests and PPS manages to graduate 93% of the TAG kids, so it's a waste to spend any time or effort doing anything extra for them when that won't make any real impact on their stats.

If you're concerned about your gifted kids being challenged in PPS, you're going to have to supplement their education outside of school. You could join the "Portland Highly Gifted" and "Portland TAG Parents" groups on Facebook and solicit more specific advice or search old posts. Lake Oswego, Beaverton, and Riverdale are all more TAG-friendly.

A while back we were contemplating a move to Vancouver, WA. Here is the highly capable (WA term for gifted) link for that school district:

http://vansd.org/highly-capable-services/