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    Joined: Feb 2016
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    etxmom Offline OP
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    My daughter just turned 7. I recently finally convinced the school to test her because she can NOT read and her handwriting is horrible. At age 5.5 she received a provisional diagnosis of ASD (I am questioning whether this may be non verbal learning disorder instead), ADHD and SPD. Testing through the school has shown high levels of anxiety and depression regarding school. These are her test results from school. Does anyone see evidence of a disability here? I'm suspecting dyslexia and dysgraphia, but now I have to convince the school that this is the issue. She has slipped under the radar with good silent reading comprehension thus far. I had her evaluated at a tutoring center where the tester said that she was very intelligent and engaging and had dyslexia and dysgraphia. However, I believe that the school is not really seeing either side of this equation. I personally feel that she could be 2E, but we just aren't quite getting the scores to prove that. Her DAS-II and KTEA scores all ended up abysmally average.

    DAS II

    Verbal 111
    GCA 100
    Spatial Ability 95
    Special NonVerbal Composite 94
    NonVerbal 93

    verbal similarities 110
    word definitions 110
    sequential & quantative resoning 100
    recall of designs 100
    pattern construction 94
    Matrices 88

    KTEA-3

    Written Language 97
    Reading 97
    Math 97
    Academic Skills Battery 96

    spelling 99
    phonological processing 106
    math comp 99
    sound-symbol 99
    reading comp 98
    written expression 98
    letter & word recog 97
    silent reading fluency 97
    math concepts & application 96
    decoding 94
    reading understanding 93
    nonsense word decoding 93
    word recog fluency 92
    reading vocab 91

    WISc-IV

    cancellation 130

    The above were the tests done under the special education evaluation.

    Below is the dyslexia evaluation done under general education:

    Towre 87

    CTOPP-II
    Phoneme Isolation 84
    Elison 95
    Blending 99
    Phonological memory 110
    Rapid Naming 113

    WRMT-III
    Decoding 113
    Word Recog 99

    GORT-5
    Oral reding fluency 95
    Accuracy 95
    Rate 75

    TWS-5
    Spelling 96

    WJ-III
    Passage Comprehension 105

    Gort
    Reading comp 95
    Listening comp 117

    KBIT-2 Composite: 88

    Cognitive/academic unexpectedness
    Verbal 127
    Nonverbal 104

    I know that's a lot and I do see that her reading rate is exceptionally low.

    Does anyone see anything in these scores that point to issues? I am very, very shocked at how average her DAS and KTEA scores are. I need all of the ammunition I can get with the school so I would love advice from anyone more knowledgeable than me!

    I can post her WPPSI-IV results from age 5.5 if I need to. Thanks in advance for any advice you can offer.

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    I'm not a professional, so I can't give you much advice or insight into your dd's scores, except a tiny bit of parent observation (I have a ds with dysgraphia and a dd who's struggled with reading, although she's not exactly conventionally dyslexic). If I understand correctly, all of the scores you've posted above were from evaluations done by the school district (one under sped, one under general education). If so, would you mind posting the scores you have from private testing? It might be helpful to see the differences. It would also be helpful to know what the private tester used as criteria for diagnosing dyslexia and dysgraphia.

    If you have a written report from an outside provider with a diagnosis, it can be a powerful tool in advocating. It's also key to know what your school district and state policies are re defining what is required to qualify for services. For instance, you've note that her reading rate is "exceptionally low"... but fwiw, it's not technically low enough to qualify for services in my school district. My dd who has the reading challenge had a much lower reading rate when she was your dd's age and her school wasn't the slightest bit concerned. That doesn't mean you shouldn't fight for the services your dd needs, but it helps tremendously to understand what the parameters are that are used by the school in making decisions. Likewise it helps tremendously to understand how a private evaluator has made a diagnosis so that you can use the same logic effectively while advocating. For my dysgraphic ds, it was really helpful in advocating with the school to create work samples at home that were under conditions similar to school and that showed how he was not performing to grade level.

    One other question - does your dd have an IEP at school for either ASD or ADHD? If she does, the school can add services and accommodations for reading and handwriting support to the existing IEP without having a dysgraphia/dyslexia diagnosis.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    etxmom Offline OP
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    Polarbear, thank you for your reply. The private tester that we recently saw was through a tutoring center. This is the report:

    The tests that were used to evaluate processing and reading skills were taken from either Woodcock Tests of Cognitive Abilities, Lindamood, Detroit Test of Learning Aptitude, or other tests to measure cognitive abilities and will be administered prior to and after training. (FYI DD is 7 years old at time of testing)

    Years
    Processing Speed 6.4
    Visual Memory 6.0
    Auditory Memory 6.9
    Word Attack: 6.5
    Logic & Reasoning 8.0
    Visual Processing 8.0
    Spelling 6.5

    Of course, there is no diagnosis on this testing. I haven't found any info about specifics regarding what is required to qualify for services. Texas has a dyslexia handbook that seems to favor 504 accommodation. Her reading rate is in the 5th percentile (on the GORT). I thought that was pretty low?

    We do not have an IEP or 504 at the moment. I am confident they will offer a 504 at our initial IEP meeting, but wonder if an IEP may be a better fit since she has multiple issues?

    I also have WPPSI-IV and WRAT testing from when she was 5.5, but it was more focused on ADHD & ASD diagnosis, not reading and writing issues.

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    For compare/contrast of IEP and 504, a few good online resources:
    1) wrightslaw. Here's a link to two of their webpages discussing classroom support via IEP/504.
    2) Understood.org is another helpful site for explaining things in layman's terms, including IEP/504.

    This is just a bit of info to help you begin your research and prepare for your meeting.

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    Originally Posted by etxmom
    Of course, there is no diagnosis on this testing.

    Did the tutoring center make a recommendation for a tutoring plan to remediate your dd's reading deficits? If so, most groups would provide the parents with a written report outlining diagnosis and tutoring or remediation plan with goals - and include an insurance code (my dd's reading center eval report was done by an SLP and includes a code for insurance billing with the words "dyslexia" written next to it - I don't know enough about insurance codes to know if there is an actual code for dyslexia. (Please keep in mind, I'm just a parent, not a professional).

    I'm also not familiar enough with the WJ tests to be able to glean anything from the #s above. If I understand your original post, someone at the testing center told you that your dd had dysgraphia and dyslexia based on the testing... if that's the case, I would make an appointment to talk about your dd's results with the evaluator (or whoever gave you the diagnosis) and use that time to ask specific questions about how they made their diagnosis. I'd also ask them if they'd be willing to write a report with a diagnosis stated on the report and remediation suggestions. This is beneficial both for you in fully understanding how to move forward for your dd, and as a piece of data that you can use when advocating for services at school.

    Quote
    I haven't found any info about specifics regarding what is required to qualify for services. Texas has a dyslexia handbook that seems to favor 504 accommodation.

    For info re what's required to qualify, you can try googling your state education website "Texas Department of Education + Special Education Policy" .. or something like that... I don't know if it will find you what you need (I'm not in Texas)... if not you night consider posting a new thread here with "Texas" and "IEP requirements" or something like that in the subject line.

    Quote
    Her reading rate is in the 5th percentile (on the GORT). I thought that was pretty low?

    I'm sorry - I must have misinterpreted the scores when I was looking at this previously - I thought her GORT reading rate was low average, but didn't realize it was as low as 5th percentile. 5th percentile should be low enough to qualify for services.

    Quote
    We do not have an IEP or 504 at the moment. I am confident they will offer a 504 at our initial IEP meeting, but wonder if an IEP may be a better fit since she has multiple issues?

    I havne't read through indigo's links - definitely read them. I don't have time at the moment to explain all the nuances and differences and which you'd want in different situations, but in a nutshell - you need an IEP if your student needs instruction that is tailored for them individually and differs from the standard classroom curriculum. If she has dyslexia, she needs a reading program that is most likely different from her current classroom reading program - however, depending on the school district, there may be a program in place that teaches reading via a different type of curriculum specifically meant to teach dyslexic students (our district has a program like this housed at one elementary school, and the students in the program don't have IEPs. There is also a program called "RTI" (Response to Intervention) that is in place in many school districts that is intended to offer individualized instruction to students in their classroom before the students are considered for an IEP - the idea is to try interventions and see if they are successful before taking on the IEP process. The success of RTI is going to vary from student to student and school district to school district. It's really important to try to learn as much as you can about what your local school policies are as well as how things work in reality in your local district. Networking with other parens is one way to find out some of what you need; another way to find out (quickly) is to check to see if there is a Parents' Advocate group in your area - there are parent advocate groups in (I think) every state - I'm guessing you should be able to find one in Texas. It might not be local to your area, but it's still worth checking into, and they may have a local advocate or local advice. When I was first advocating for services for my dysgraphic ds I found our local parent advocate group on the yellow pages at wrightslaw.com - and it was literally a lifesaver! I spent very little time actually talking to an advocate, and I never needed to have one sit in on a meeting at school, but the advice they gave on how to address the school, how to advocate in a meeting, as well as knowledge of local and state policy was invaluable. In our case, the advocates were local so they also knew a bit about individuals at our school and politics involved in advocating.

    Quote
    I also have WPPSI-IV and WRAT testing from when she was 5.5, but it was more focused on ADHD & ASD diagnosis, not reading and writing issues.

    Even though it was focused on ADHD & ASD diagnosis, a look at discrepancies between subtests and ability vs achievement might show patterns that would indicate potential reading and writing issues.

    I think you mentioned in your OP that you have some doubts about your dd's ASD diagnosis - have you considered taking her for a full evaluation by a neuropsychologist? We found that it was very difficult with our 2e kids to understand what was up until we had the global information that a neurospcyh offers by looking at overall functioning, not just one specific concern such as reading etc. DS' teacher, for example, was convinced he had ADHD due to his behavior in class in 2nd grade. With both of my kids who've been through neuropscyh evals, the results that came out of their evals were completely out-of-the-blue different than what we'd anticipated going in, and the evaluations provided with a road-map for what to pursue immediately and in the long-term to meet their needs for remediation and accommodation.

    Best wishes,

    polarabear

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    WJ results are more interpretable when standard scores are provided. I am generally leery of using the age/grade-equivalent scores (professional test interpretation standards call for avoiding age/grade equivalents, except in very specific circumstances, with tests designed for that purpose--which the WJ is not). Based on my experience with the instrument, I will say that these scores appear to be generally age-appropriate. Also, I would be extremely cautious about any institution that claims to use the WJ (any version of it; the current one is WJIV) as a pre-/post-test for an intervention or tutoring regimen. These kinds of tests are not designed for that use (indeed, they are not designed for any kind of administration at intervals of less than six months, if achievement tests, and at intervals of less than two years, if cognitive tests), and thus, due to test/retest effects, they are highly likely to result in higher scores on the second administration regardless of the real-life effectiveness of the intervention or tutoring.

    Yes, most of her testing is comfortably average, both cognitively and academically, though at the cluster level, this is not extremely unusual variation in testing results compared to her prior testing. I do see a couple of inconsistencies with regard to reading: phonological processing is somewhat inconsistent, with phoneme isolation mildly low, oral reading rate is low, and a moderately sizable difference was obtained between reading and listening comprehension, of over a standard deviation. At the same time, some of her other decoding and word calling skills are at or above age-expectation. I believe we discussed some of her internal variation in your earlier thread regarding the WPPSI/WRAT data.

    Perhaps you could clarify the KBIT2 results. Is the composite score a standard score or percentile? Are the "unexpectednesses" the verbal and nonverbal scores from the KBIT2?


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    etxmom Offline OP
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    Sorry it took me a while to reply. I took a few days off to relax and not think about school and testing before school started.

    Thanks Indigo!

    Polar- the tutoring center recommended 30 hours of tutoring and sound therapy. This was just hand written. There are no insurance codes because our insurance doesn't cover anything to do with learning disabilities, so we were cash pay. I will contact her and see if she would be willing to provide me something in writing though, since the printout I have is pretty generic and not very informative.

    I have a pretty good grasp on the differences of the IEP and 504. I know I would prefer and IEP, but I'm not sure if she will qualify and exactly what they require to qualify.

    And yes, I would love to have a full eval by a neuropsych. I think we will eventually have to go that route. However, it's quite expensive and not in the budget at the moment. It is one of my goals though. I think it will be the best way to figure out what we need for her and what her strengths are.

    aeh - I'm not even sure what tests she used for what areas of her eval as she only lists age equivalents and areas they are testing. She used a combination of all the tests listed in my previous post, but I'm not sure which tests she used for which category.

    And, I wish I could clarify the KBIT2 results. I had assumed they were standard scores, but I guess they could be composite. The form that the school used for testing was horrible. I am meeting with the special ed diagnositician tomorrow so she can explain results to me. However the dyslexia eval was done under general education and they act like they don't want to talk about it before our IEP meeting, so I will see what info I can get!

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    Okay. Keep us posted. And remember that you do not have to agree to anything at all at an IEP meeting. Signing the attendance sheet does not indicate consent to any of the conclusions or proposals.


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    Originally Posted by etxmom
    However the dyslexia eval was done under general education and they act like they don't want to talk about it before our IEP meeting, so I will see what info I can get!

    If you want to see the school's dyslexia testing report before the meeting you can try this:

    Send an email to the full team that will be attending the meeting (SPED person, staff rep, teacher, etc) and request a copy of the dyslexia testing results at least 3 days prior to the meeting (or whatever time frame you need). If the staff says they don't have enough time to prepare the report, request that the meeting be moved. There are a certain # of days that the school has in which to hold the team meeting to review eligibility, so they can't put off the meeting forever. This worked for us - we didn't get our ds' scores until the day before the meeting, but we did at least have enough time to review them and be prepared before the meeting.

    Have you looked into what your options are if the school finds your dd isn't eligible for an IEP? Can you request an IEE (Independent Educational Evaluation) paid for by the school district?

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    The law generally requires all data to be used in the eligibility/plan development process to be available to the parent/guardian at least 2 days prior to the meeting.


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    Hi etxmom- I took one of those wrightslaw courses, when Pete Wright was in my city. If the reports are not ready, but the school/district has the data you are entitled to the raw data. It's part of your child's records.

    I know a lot of people except 504s in lieu of IEPs, but it really should not be that way. If your child has a disability that adversely affects his education then that's an IEP, everything else is a 504.

    It's taken me forever to realize districts should be paying for my DSs evaluations and to know how to get the vouchers. In fact, I just received vouchers in the mail for my youngest for neuropsych, speech, OT, APD and assistive technology. Get the data and then I am sure all of us can help you get the neuropsych at district expense. One thing worth mentioning is that you should request the IEE before the IEP meeting.

    I know this is a steep learning curve, but with the help here you will be able to do it.

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    etxmom Offline OP
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    I just wanted to come back and update on our results. I was able to get the cover scoring sheets from the dyslexia testing. The advocate I was speaking to thinks that they should not have even scored the GORT because she never got a basal, but apparently the manual is not entirely clear on this?

    Anyway, I met with the dyslexia teacher who did part of her testing. Shortly after I got there the district dyslexia director showed up to meet me. I honestly believe that they had only glanced at her scores and determined she didn't qualify for the dyslexia program. However, these two ladies were very nice and listened to what I had to say. I pointed out the variances in her scores and graphed them all so that they were easy to see on a bell curve. After about 5 minutes in the meeting they were both totally on board to recommend her for dyslexia instruction and questioned why she was not in gifted classes. They were my saviors.

    The IEP meeting was exhausting. The SPED team was a joke and the leader was a total bulldog. I finally shut her up long enough to talk. In the end, it was very obvious they were going to fight tooth and nail to not provide an IEP. We went with the 504 for dyslexia, ADHD & asthma and got her in counseling for anxiety and depression related to school. She is also in behavioral RTI for social skills. I did warn them that if this route was not sufficient to provide her what she needed that I would be back. So far I have been happy with the outcome. We still need to have her visual processing checked as the advocate seems to think this could be part or even all of her reading issue.

    I appreciate everyone's input so much! I'm hoping to be able to relax just a little bit for now and monitor her progress.

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