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    #239348 - 07/28/17 11:43 AM The relationship between intelligence and mindset
    aeh Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 2841
    A recent new spin on the growth/fixed mindset discussion. As always, read and reflect with discretion:
    Quote:
    Highlights
    •Contrary to prediction, women do not have more fixed mindsets than men.
    •Little evidence that more intelligent women hold fixed mindsets.
    •Growth mindset does not predict highest level of education attained.

    Consumer summary:
    https://www.tes.com/news/school-news/bre...ent-study-finds

    Journal article:
    http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016028961630280X

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    #239352 - 07/28/17 04:54 PM Re: The relationship between intelligence and mindset [Re: aeh]
    Deeah Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 07/26/17
    Posts: 5
    Is there any evidence to show which mindset reflects the real state of things? I.e., I'm not asking whether believing in growth or fixed mindset is more *beneficial,* but which is more *justified.* I think of intelligence as a range that varies from person to person: you probably won't exceed your personal upper limit, but you can also never tell for sure whether you've reached it.

    If I'm right, then "growth mindset" is appropriate when you're trying to assess or work within the upper reaches of what you can do, but "fixed mindset" is also appropriate because it doesn't imply that everyone's range is equally broad. There's no reason to choose between them because they aren't mutually exclusive.

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    #239819 - 09/26/17 12:38 PM Re: The relationship between intelligence and mindset [Re: aeh]
    DAD22 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 07/19/11
    Posts: 306
    My daughter recently encountered this mindset discussion at school. I saw the worksheet they gave, and it appeared to me that both mindsets were probably misrepresented. As portrayed, both mindsets were clearly false. My understanding is that the growth mindset was never supposed to be scientifically true, but rather it was intended as a motivational tool for parents and teachers to use to increase effort from the students.

    I don't believe anyone knows how to increase our intellectual potential, so I suppose that points to the fixed mindset as being more accurate.

    It seems to me that effort and talent both play a role in achievement. If I were trying to simplify the related factors for elementary school children, I think I'd do so in one of the following ways:

    Achievement = Support x Effort x Talent + Luck

    or

    Achievement = Opportunity x Support x Effort x Talent + Luck

    I would think the schools would want to accentuate the importance of support, since that's what they offer. Also, there's lessons to be learned there, regarding asking questions when you don't understand something. A student who requests support when needed will achieve more than a similar student who refuses to ask for support.

    Thoughts?

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    #239820 - 09/26/17 12:47 PM Re: The relationship between intelligence and mindset [Re: aeh]
    aquinas Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/02/12
    Posts: 2067
    Originally Posted By: Deeah
    but you can also never tell for sure whether you've reached it


    Sure you can. Keep raising the bar until you're observing unavoidable failures. Theoretically, everyone will at some point, with the delightful side effect that you might achieve some phenomenal results from the interim exercise!


    Edited by aquinas (09/26/17 12:50 PM)
    _________________________
    Success is not final, failure is not fatal: it is the courage to continue that counts.

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    #239821 - 09/26/17 01:08 PM Re: The relationship between intelligence and mindset [Re: DAD22]
    Dude Offline
    Member

    Registered: 10/04/11
    Posts: 2709
    Originally Posted By: DAD22
    Achievement = Opportunity x Support x Effort x Talent + Luck


    I've expressed a similar equation to his one, if you consider Luck and Support as subcomponents of Opportunity.

    Said equation will work for achieving anything in life, not just elementary school.

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    #239826 - 09/27/17 03:55 AM Re: The relationship between intelligence and mindset [Re: aeh]
    madeinuk Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/18/13
    Posts: 1335
    Loc: NJ
    Hey Dude - I noticed that you decloaked recently - welcome back.

    Interestingly, I read an article that stressed opportunity and support as aspects of Bill Gate's success:-

    See story here


    Edited by madeinuk (09/27/17 03:56 AM)
    _________________________
    Become what you are

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    #239834 - 09/27/17 01:33 PM Re: The relationship between intelligence and mindset [Re: Dude]
    mecreature Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/14/11
    Posts: 308
    Originally Posted By: Dude
    Originally Posted By: DAD22
    Achievement = Opportunity x Support x Effort x Talent + Luck


    I've expressed a similar equation to his one, if you consider Luck and Support as subcomponents of Opportunity.

    Said equation will work for achieving anything in life, not just elementary school.


    This is so true.

    Sometimes or maybe most of the time, my role in Support is as simple as making sure ds just shows up. With the slightest bit of Luck, Opportunities will happen.

    We have had our share of Very Lucky Opportunities in the last few years.
    We try to make sure he understands this. I am not sure he gets it fully, yet.

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    #240112 - 10/16/17 11:29 AM Re: The relationship between intelligence and mindset [Re: aquinas]
    Deeah Offline
    Junior Member

    Registered: 07/26/17
    Posts: 5
    Originally Posted By: aquinas
    Originally Posted By: Deeah
    but you can also never tell for sure whether you've reached it


    Sure you can. Keep raising the bar until you're observing unavoidable failures. Theoretically, everyone will at some point, with the delightful side effect that you might achieve some phenomenal results from the interim exercise!


    But how, in practice, do you keep raising the bar? What is "the bar" (i.e., the measure of your intelligence) to begin with? If you mean "keep learning new things until I no longer can," that doesn't sound like a recipe for unavoidable failure so much as a practical life plan for using your mind.

    And when you do encounter failure, how do you know for sure that it's unavoidable? I've had some wonderful experiences where, having thought I'd hit a wall, I discovered that the scope of what I was learning was much larger than I thought after I discovered key new pieces of information. I've also been able to improve my overall thinking ability through new areas of research and intellectual practice, but I don't think that's making me "more intelligent" (i.e., raising my upper limit) so much as showing me how to think at that level, which would always have been available to me if I'd known it was there and how to access it. Any of us could have a similar expeirence that we misinterpret as "unavoidable failure." In practice it doesn't seem possible to tell for sure which is which.

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