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    Joined: Apr 2014
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    aeh Offline
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    FYI, Saxon Algebra 1/2 is essentially a pre-algebra text. My DC who spent a little time in Saxon did 6/5, fleetingly 7/6 before being moved up to 8/7 early in the year, and then went straight into Pearson/Prentice Hall Algebra I Common Core, based on an end-of-course exam score for Algebra 1/2 that was better than 90%. IOW, there is negligible material in 1/2 that could not have been learned in 8/7. So if his alg 1 class was really Saxon algebra 1/2, he didn't actually have a solid algebra 1 class, which might be why it felt limited. Good for him that he adapted to alg 2 without that.


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    Here they do pre-algebra and then kids have the option to take "Middle school algebra" which is probably a dumbed down introductory version of algebra, then they would take Algebra 1 in 9th grade high school. A lot of kids take Algebra 1 in middle school, but they give h.s. credit for it. So it's the "middle school algebra" that they are having DS skip. He just finished Pearson Math Connects course 3.

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    sanne Offline OP
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    Yeah, aeh, the online algebra 1 was a joke. The previous school year he did coursera.org AlgebraX which has the more typical Algebra 1 topics, but it was very conceptual without many practice problems. Then over summer I was worried because he skipped so many grades in math, so last summer I had him do Saxon 65, 76, Algebra 1/2 to check for gaps. It would be like pulling teeth to have him go through Algebra 1 again - to do the practice problems without learning new material. But if he can't solve those problems with accuracy, he needs to do it again.

    What if he is fatigued and impulsive if testing continues after his medication wears off? What if he is over-tested and gives up? If they start at 6th grade in all subjects, that's going to be a lot of testing!

    Aeh, do you think it would be reasonable to ask them to start testing at 9th grade level? They could go down from there if he scored lower than expected, but if he performed as expected it would save him from taking at least 9 unnecessary tests.

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    aeh Offline
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    I think it would be very reasonable to ask them to test him starting from his documented completed coursework. At this point, he's had multiple courses in algebra I and prealgebra, and is part way through alg ii. Giving him the alg I end-of-course to begin with seems eminently sensible. Do you have any idea what kind of placement testing they do? We use some specific computer-based placement instruments for our incoming ninth graders. One I don't know the name of for math, and the SRI reading comp test. And we have them write an essay. If he's completed at least eighth grade level work in all core subjects, he should really be taking the same placement instruments as incoming ninth graders. Our placement instrument is reasonably effective at placing them into alg I or alg ii (we make almost everyone take geometry in tenth grade, because that's when high stakes testing occurs, and its logistically easier to schedule testing if they're all in the same classes--though several years back, we did have a freshman who tested into alg ii do so well that he was advanced to precalc in tenth grade).


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    aeh Offline
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    So I looked up the Aspire technical manual, and the scaling on the 6th grade test does allow for comparisons to the 50th %ile or better up through 10th grade, which is the highest Aspire grade level. If he tops that out, then you'd be looking at the actual college prep ACT as the appropriate above-grade-level test. Which, I think, is a bridge you cross only if you get to it. If his writing is middle school level, on reflection, I think it may make more sense to split the difference, and have him take a late middle school test, like the eighth grade form, so that both his strengths and weaknesses are somewhere closer to the middle of the obtainable ranges for scaled scores. If one of the sections blows the roof off, then you try another grade level in that subject. I'd say that if additional testing is needed, that the first round will give the school some idea of how far up to go, and then you go back on another day for a second round in the specified areas.


    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
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    About the MAP scores, unless your DS took the 6+ version, the numbers may not be accurate. Assuming that the scores were either from the 6+ version or otherwise accurate, the numbers may still be too low for high school unless your DS is stucked in a district without students who can hold their own nationally (top 90th percentile or so). As a comparison to the over-inclusive "pseudo-GT" classes for DS/DD's 8th grade cohort, those Math and Reading scores would have placed your DS among the low-performers.

    The key is figuring out the composition of students at your DS's school. Another poster mentioned that their school has a "middle school Algebra I" class, which is watered down and required repeating with a "high school Algebra I" class. In our district, it is the complete opposite! The Algebra I class in 7th grade has the bright kids while the Algebra I class in 9th grade has the remedial kids - this is objectively verified by superior performance on a national Algebra I test near the end of the school year.

    I am not certain about the 50% threshold. Is it 50th percentile for targeted grade or 50% correct on end-of-course assessment. The former would be too low a threshold but the latter may be reasonable. The consideration is whether you want your DS to be in the middle of the pack or among the top performing students.

    I highly recommend you steer your DS to the Art of Problem Solving website. Try their readiness and mastery tests for Algebra 1 and Algebra 2. There are also tests for Algebra 3. Do note that a solid Algebra I course at a B&M school actually covers part of AoPS' Algebra 2 course while a solid Algebra II course at a B&M school would cover parts of AoPS' Algebra 3. However, AoPS is more in-depth and challenging. There are also the free online Alcumus problems categorized by Algebra topics. You mentioned that your DS is completing Algebra II so if your DS quickly hits blue (mastery) on the relevant Algebra topics on Alcumus, that can also reassure you as to his readiness for Geometry.

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    sanne Offline OP
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    Thank you aeh and Quantum2003! I appreciate your feedback very much!

    I want DS10 to be middle of the pack. If he's getting straight A's I suspect his perfectionism, anxiety, and smug attitude will return.

    The middle/high school is rated low for college readiness. Students who go to college are mostly going to the local community college. That's the plan for DS10 anyway - to get his AA done at the community college and then transfer into one of the state universities.

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    sanne Offline OP
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    I am enjoying what is playing out at home now with the prospect of above-grade-level testing on the horizon. DS10 is aware he has forgotten a lot, especially in grammar. He is concerned that he might score lower on testing now than a year ago.

    *I* am not sharing the same concern. I'm working on boundaries - his life, his behavior, his consequences.

    He asked me for access to IXL.com to review english/grammar. I told him if he did chores all afternoon, I would pay for a month of access to IXL. I didn't think for a moment that he would follow through. BUT HE DID! I had a relaxing afternoon and my house was clean, and he got IXL to practice. He's going straight down the 12th grade english to review.

    This is so nice, a complete change. He's taking a bit of responsibility for his actions and trying to influence the outcome in his favor. So much better than his regular pattern of giving up, resisting, and blaming mom for everything that goes wrong in his life.

    I'm sensing the winds of change. smile

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    Originally Posted by sanne
    This is so nice, a complete change. He's taking a bit of responsibility for his actions and trying to influence the outcome in his favor. So much better than his regular pattern of giving up, resisting, and blaming mom for everything that goes wrong in his life.
    This is great news - thanks for sharing. smile

    Internal locus of control: He is owning his choices...
    Originally Posted by indigo
    a new-found appreciation for learning, internal locus of control, ferreting out resources to fuel his own growth and education (putting his energy and intelligence to good use rather than to testing limits).

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    sanne Offline OP
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    This saga is taking an unexpected turn. smile After 13 years (yes, years!) of misdiagnosis, my chronic illness has been diagnosed correctly and the treatment (y'know, for the right diagnosis...) is working. DS10 has been staying with grandparents while I adjust to new medication and to take him to piano lessons since I'd been unable to drive. He has been home for a couple visits and he is sensing the winds of change too. I was physically capable of supervising him. After a tantrum, he quit his old patterns of misbehavior and was cooperative.

    Getting him set up for school is bogged down in technicalities. He grade skip last year (4th to 7th) was not recorded correctly by his previous school, so the middle school referred his acceleration to the elementary school. But the middle/high school is going to do the testing? Nothing has happened yet. The middle/high school is very pro-acceleration, so once he is officially promoted into that school the proces *should* be smooth.

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