Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Reverse acceleration due to ADHD??

I don't think that is the case @75west, but I appreciate you posting the links and read them. I will pass them on for my nephew who had apraxia of speech, has dysgraphia, and - recently discovered at 9 years old - stealth dyslexia. He is behaviorally similar to my DS10, but the main difference is my son will have occasional changes to good attitude and then good attention and math performance also. I had DS10 check one of his assignments last week and he was shocked that he'd gotten 75% on his first try. He doesn't see that he is improving with practice, but I think that's a bit of ADHD, age, and bad attitude wrapped up together where he's not able to look at situations objectively.

It's maddening that he'll pull huge long oppositions, and then have a total attitude change. He missed most of family vacation. He is behind in the state requirements for homeschooling and the deadline is June 30. I got all kinds of crap from my husband's family about insisting that DS10 would do one math lesson each morning before participating in vacation. Of course, DS10 dragged out his one math lesson until evening most of the days, but that's his choice. I'm sure I've covered my bases as far as homeschooling requirements and that there's no way I could be found guilty of educational neglect. But in my mind, I'm upset that he didn't do english, has not progressed with his writing tutor, has only covered 1/4 of the math, has not progressed in science, quit trumpet (his supposed passion), barely participating in piano. He's not doing electives, sports, clubs, activities, or any extracurricular activities that would justify reducing academics. Not even playing alone or with friends. But still, my husband's family has been pressuring me the past week to "let him be a kid" and "it's summer vacation", etc. Their kids participate in school, activities, friends, good grades, etc. Mine does not, and no summer vacation until he finishes school.

Depression would also explain a lot of these things.

I would tell him that he has X period of time over the summer to show a willingness to work otherwise he has to go to the public school. Show him the enrollment forms, etc. so he knows you're serious. if he ends up in the public school, tell him that if he completes his work there, you can consider homeschooling again after X amount of time (like a quarter or semester). Or, if he chooses, he can stay in school. I think you need to lay it out for him and then act on it. Focusing for one day on schoolwork is not going to be good enough. He has to be serious about it for a couple weeks and demonstrate a permanent attitude change. I'm not sure how long he has been home schooled but peer pressure can do amazing things. He may end up working because it's expected, and that might change his "I can't" mindset. Not likely but I don't see what other options you have at this point. My kids with executive functioning issues can also be stubborn and resist work and it's very frustrating figuring out why and what to do about it. The key accommodation seems to be to break things down into small steps. Seeing too much work all at once is overwhelming. So even with math, you could try giving him only a few problems at a time.

sanne - it may not be the case, but I'll echo that I had the same thoughts as @75west while reading your post, and I'm parenting a teen who is dyspraxic and dysgraphic as well as a younger teen with a reading challenge. One thing that I'd note from what you've just mentioned - your ds has a cousin who has dysgraphia. Dysgraphia, dyscalculia, dyslexia sometimes occur in families. If your ds hasn't had a neuropsych evaluation, I'd consider it. Many of the symptoms of ADHD are shared with other learning challenges, and the behaviors you've described around schoolwork are very similar to behaviors of students with undiagnosed learning challenges. It's incredibly easy to not recognize learning challenges in bright children - they are so able to cope in so many ways.

I'd also note that those occasional changes in attitude and performance aren't inconsistent with learning challenges - I suspect that many of us here who are parenting 2e students have seen those moments when everything seems to be working ok, or even very well - but typically there are things surrounding those moments which make that change possible - i.e., subtle differences in what's expected, what's assigned, maybe even something that helps our child in terms of self-confidence that's not easily noticed unless you're looking at the details.


You can help him see progress (as well as monitor it) by designing repeat assignments - have him do essentially (but not exactly) the same type of exercise every 3-4 months, or every Friday - pick the interval based on what type of assignment you choose and also how often you think your ds would benefit from seeing his progress.


Another poster suggested that these might be symptoms of depression. Do you think his lack of progression with his schoolwork and need to finish it is also diminishing his ability to enjoy the things he does like to do? Does he usually like to play with friends? If it seems like he's not himself, I'd wonder if he's feeling down, and also wonder if it's related to his lack of progress with his schoolwork. Just thinking that there might be *something* other than unwillingness or lack of cooperation that's resulting in his lack of progress, and that not really understanding at this point what that something is might be leading him into feeling down more globally. Hope that makes sense. And granted, I may be totally off in thinking this is a possibility - just thinking through what happened with my ds prior to having a diagnosis that helped us understand what was really going on with his challenges.

Best wishes,

polarbear

He only has had WISC IV, WIAT III, and WISC V for neuropsych. His processing speed is verrrrrrrrry sloooooooooooow. 21st percentile, low enough to drag down his FSIQ by 30 percentiles. Other than that, nothing noteworthy in neuropsych. He was screened for anxiety and depression at the time he was diagnosed with ADHD. He has seen a psychologist, but it was a massive failure as the psychologist was pushing reward systems on me and DS10 tried to use that to manipulate.

He does not have friends locally, he was social outcast. He has a friend out of town we see twice a month and gets along with cousins (who recently moved out of state). In his own words "I like people, but they don't like me." Very true, his impulsive behavior is offputting to age peers.

Home life is not so great because of constant conflict he instigates.

I get how he's unhappy most the time, but he is causing his own unhappiness. It's so frustrating. I don't think there's anything left I can do about it more than to put him in public school so it's not affecting me and DS2 during the day.

I recently read this book. https://www.amazon.com/Only-Mother-Could-Love-Him/dp/0340838922 and it was interesting in that a young adult describes what his childhood was like with adhd and what was going through his head. Maybe it would give you some insight? I dont think people realize how adhd can reallly be a big problem because of the executive functioning aspect of it. It's not really much different than any other learning disability. so unless you have reason to believe he has dyslexia, dyscalculia, etc. you can probably assume some of it is ADHD and the poor executive functioning that goes along with it (problems with focus, initiation, organization, planning, etc), some of it is negative thought patterns based on past experiences, some of it is just plain lazy or obnoxious behavior. There doesn't have to be just one explanation. Research ways to get him organized, scaffold his work, and help improve executive functioning skills.

Thank you for the book suggestion; I put in a library request and will have it in my hands by next week!

Sanne - I wasn't focusing on the computational math but on your ds's internal sense of time and his avoidance behavior.

My ds11 too has had plenty of testing and seen many experts, but none of them uttered the word dyscalculia or stealth dyslexia yet my ds definitely has no internal sense of time. Zilch. Ds has ADHD and PDD traits and symptoms, but it's the sense of time that unhinges him.

Ds goes into a complete tailspin with anything timed. He has avoided timed math facts since he's been homeschooled and had a bit of a traumatic time when he was in a private gifted school and made to do timed math drills in kindergarten, no less. He just can't get the words out quick enough for math drills or make his fingers get to the right keys on a keyboard to answer quickly enough in time.

And yes, there is a genetic component here -- ds has dyspraxia and other family members do too as well as stealth dyslexia. I've got family members who also have no sense of time, zilch.

Playing the piano or any instrument requires a sense of timing, I believe, as well as great auditory skills. If you don't have an internal sense of time, then you're more likely to avoid picking up an instrument.

Even with stealth dyslexia (https://www.understood.org/en/commu...-some-dyslexic-students-escape-detection) - you can have good focus and attention -- but with using fMRI scanners to study the brains of students with stealth dyslexia. Researchers found that their brain wiring did indeed show the classic features of dyslexia. This confirmed they really are dyslexic.

This particular researcher - found that when they read, they show heightened activity in parts of the brain that help with executive function and self-control. Their comprehension appears to be strong because they compensate for their decoding problems by using their attention and problem-solving skills in especially active ways.

Maybe a fMRI scan would confirm the issue? I'm trying to find an answer for the question myself.

@75west, I started laughing out loud at "internal sense of time". None. 😂 And coming unglued at timed math facts. I was so frustrated and disappointed as I LOVED timed math fact tests when I was that age! You're right, he can't get the words out before he forget the thought.

I will have to listen more carefully to his music. He generally plays with a metronome. hmmmm.... He's musically talented, but feels intimidated by learning new music. Takes him a long time to go through the process of reading music. He enjoys playing after he has figured out the notes. He balks at reading the notes. He decided one of his pieces assigned this week is "hard" and is refusing to work on it. Ironically - and predictably - it's easier than his other piece assigned for this week, and easier than each of the three pieces he learned last week. 😖 He cannot be convinced otherwise. I'm annoyed to waste the lesson money, time and travel cost for a lesson that he's not well-prepared for. He outgrew his first piano teacher after 6 weeks. His current teacher is a professor, and private lessons are costing as much as if he took them for college credit. The quality of instruction is fabulous and exactly what he needs, but then he pulls out his "I can't do it" card. Frustration!

I will reread the links. Thank you for clarifying.

I have forgotten to say that other than the learned helplessness, the other major cause of his refusal to do school is his expectation that it should be "interesting". I'm interpreting this as novelty seeking ADHD. However, considering he has gotten a grade or subject skip every time he pulled the behavior pattern (because he needed it), now he is conditioned that refusal = reward. My interpretation. He also has a maladaptive reaction of trying to make tasks interesting by adding to them (in his mind), which is not doing them at all.

He's trying to make them interesting with sensory stimming, but get distracting in the stimming and getting comfortable and abandons the task. When I interrupt the pattern of behavior he gets sulky and refuses to comply. He read a book that gave him an alternate strategy of racing against a timer. Racing the clock works reliably to get him engaged and interested in the activity. However, he refuses to use this strategy without prompting, and usually resists with prompting.

Can lead a horse to water, can't make it drink.