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    #238421 05/18/17 12:21 PM
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    As we wind down this school year my thoughts have been turning to next year. My kids are heading into fifth and third grades, and I'm dreading the annual rigamarole of letting the teachers figure out that my kids are different, meeting them at fall conferences, making vague plans for differentiation, but not really having any concrete feedback on whether my kids are making any significant progress toward any kind of goal. (We attend a public school district that has no G&T program available.)

    I like their teachers and their teachers like my kids. I volunteer in the classroom so I'm familiar enough to talk to them about whatever I deem necessary. But I don't like making excessive demands on the teachers, who have a herculean task of getting a large portion of their students up to grade level expectations each year. So unless something is glaring (my math-loving fourth grader crying over his math homework) I don't make waves.

    So, I think that maybe if we bring the principal into the conversation, I can get some "big picture" understanding of how my kids should be expected to get through elementary school and beyond? Then I can go into next grade with some kind of a plan to point to, instead of me feeling like I am asking teachers to give special treatment to my little unique snowflakes?

    To that end I was hoping I could get some advice on how to approach my meeting with the principal tomorrow. I don't want this to be adversarial -- my hope is that with his more-extensive experience helping kids navigate the educational system, he'll be able to propose some feasible, practical remedies?

    I just don't know if I should come in with specific requests or even ultimatums. (Eg. My kids need to be done with leveled readers. They will not grow in their reading skill or their ability to unpack interesting literature if they're not having exposure to novels instead of textbooks.) Should I bring a portfolio of their work and testing results? The principal is really good at getting to know all the kids, and I am pretty sure he knows my son at least. They've had some quirky conversations through the years in the bus line, with DS talking his ear off about classifying cloud formations or gravitational waves or whatever. wink So maybe it's overkill to try to "prove" that they're advanced learners.

    I just don't know. I'm nervous that I'm about to set myself up with a label of being THAT kind of parent, and I don't even know if I have my husband's support on this (he's been working a lot and we haven't had time to talk much about this stuff.) The only other parent I know who's concerned about this kind of thing is WAY more proactive than me. She's had repeated meetings with her kids' teachers and with the principal and counselor and has gone away unsatisfied and will be changing districts next year. So...yeah. I want to be more laidback than that, but I also can't have my kids slip into the trap of underachieving or perfectionism.

    Any help is very welcome!

    Last edited by sunnyday; 05/18/17 12:21 PM.
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    We are in the same situation with our children, who are in similar grades. Also a public school, does not allow grade level acceleration, subject differentiation, or mandatory GT programming. We have met with the administrators many times over the years to no avail. We have come to the conclusion that that the principal does not want to take on any additional work to accommodate students' unique learning unless absolutely necessary such as SPED.

    Therefore, we have decided that school will just give our children some socialization skills, group work involvement, field trips, and comply with state testing assessments. The real learning happens at home after school. However, we felt our kids were in school too long and it wasn't right that they would come home and do more schooling, and have less unstructured free time. So we brought up the idea of partial home schooling and traditional schooling, and it seems to be favorable with the administrators. It doesn't involve any more work for them, as we will just pull our kids out of school at lunch break. It is the best of both worlds. We plan on doing the early pull out three times a week and two times a week they stay in school the whole time. Our state actually does not have a mandate on partial homeschooling so it is important to have the principal be on board with this plan.

    Sunnyday, since you mentioned you help out in the classroom a lot, you could try partial homeschooling in the morning and have them join in the afternoon or vice versa like us. Even try it just two times per week or whatever accommodates your schedule. It is kinda like the old saying "if you want to have something done right, you need to do it yourself." You can't depend on the public school to teach your kids to the level you think they deserve and provide them with individual attention. It is just not feasible for the school to attend to every single child's differing learning needs and abilities.

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    We've had basically the same philosophy! I mean, we've made it this far and it's been perfectly fine to just encourage more in-depth work and exploring the world when they're at home. (In the early grades we did a bit of actual, semi-formal school work in their free time, but there's just too much else going on at this point for that to work.) It can be really nice to have the kids so unfazed by or ahead of the coursework that teachers never hesitate to approve a pre-planned absence. "They'll be FINE."

    But this year has been a little tougher. I've come to feel that it's okay to expect a little more, to see some interest paid to them as individuals with their own set of challenges. Like you said, they're in hours and hours of school followed by a short burst before bedtime in which to accomplish extracurriculars, sports, and self-directed learning. It's just not enough. Either school has to become more than a placeholder, or we have to keep them home. I would LOVE to delve into homeschool. I am just very reluctant to abandon the public school.

    I'm so glad to hear that you've gotten the buy-in from administration to do partial homeschool! I will definitely bring something like that up with the principal. My kids would LOVE that option. The idea is growing on them that if we want something different than school offers, we're going to have to get it done ourselves, but they are really reluctant to leave the school structure and friends and teachers they've come to know.

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    You can even try 4 days a week normal school, and choose one day of the week and keep them home completely to homeschool.

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    I've done what spaghetti suggested this year. Ended up running a math pull out group with five third graders (including my daughter) and my second grade son where I taught them fourth grade math as a volunteer.
    And after considerably more deliberation, they actually hired me to teach a weekly half-day GATE pullout for about twenty kids (which is the first time they've ever had one in this district). We started in January and ended last week.
    Maybe your school would be open to something similar.

    Last edited by Cnm; 05/18/17 05:53 PM.
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    Embrace being THAT kind of parent. Just IMHO, eventually you kind of have to be.

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    I can so identify with your post. We are technically in a GT program, but there are so many politics involved in our district that the program has gone in recent years from school within a school to differentiated instruction.

    Some teachers can differentiate and others struggle with it. I have been very involved with the school, and have even been employed by them part time in the past.

    I've played the role that you are attempting to play. I've given the teachers supportive, positive feedback but tried to avoid negative comments or complaints. It's been difficult and I'm not always successful at that role.

    I've found that it's much more effective at our school to deal directly with the teachers. The administration does not care to address giftedness. THey don't seem to want to acknowledge it at all, probably because of the political situation in our district.

    I would ask you if you've noticed any flexibility with your principal in the past or with other families. Is this a principal who is willing to focus on individual children or is he/she more interested in having a well-oiled machine? If your principal is more focused on keeping the faculty happy vs the parents, a conversation may not get you too far. We've had both kinds of principals and that makes all the difference.


    I don't see how it could hurt to meet. It could at the very least affect the choice of teacher for your kids. That's maybe the one thing that has been a positive affect of my advocating at our school, that the kids do tend to get placed in classes where the teachers are known for being good at differentiation. I don't think there's a downside to speaking with them, as long as you keep it positive and are sympathetic (or at least appear to be) to the limitations the administration has placed on them by the district.

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    Originally Posted by spaghetti
    This is not usually what is recommended but in this kind of situation it worked for me. I asked what they usually do for kids who had surpassed the curriculum (or some other similar characteristic).


    Yep, absolutely. It's part of why I don't want to consider pulling out of the school without addressing things, because I know mine aren't the only ones that need something more. It's basically what I want this meeting to accomplish -- I *know* that there have been kids of bright parents, whom I assume were fairly bright, who got through elementary here without imploding. wink If the school offers something when pushed, I want to push, and I want to know what it is! smile And I want my kids to have peers, so badly. In particular, I would love to see some universal screening done, so that we can catch the kids who *don't* have pushy parents -- since giftedness occurs across the SES spectrum, but I don't think the Spanish-speaking families, for example, are comfortable addressing administration.

    Originally Posted by Cnm
    I've done what spaghetti suggested this year. Ended up running a math pull out group with five third graders (including my daughter) and my second grade son where I taught them fourth grade math as a volunteer.
    And after considerably more deliberation, they actually hired me to teach a weekly half-day GATE pullout for about twenty kids (which is the first time they've ever had one in this district).

    For two years I've run a reading group for my daughter's grade in order to help enrich the top readers. Unfortunately they never gave me material more than a half grade ahead to work with, but at least it got the kids together for me to just reinforce that it is COOL to love reading! (They also discontinued the group for the last few months so I could use my time with the struggling kids instead.) Last year I also helped with small groups in math for third grade, for a range of abilities, but it was hard to see who "got it" like my son does when doing worksheets and simple games...the one boy who seemed similar, moved away. But generally, YES. My son doesn't want me to come to school and pull him out for tutoring, but if I can pull out a group he will be ALL for it. And if I could get paid...that hadn't even crossed my mind, honestly, but my husband would certainly support the heck out of that, LOL. Thanks!! I should bring Beast Academy to the principal and see if he'll let me teach that to some kids, how cool would that be. wink

    Originally Posted by Saritz
    I've found that it's much more effective at our school to deal directly with the teachers. The administration does not care to address giftedness. THey don't seem to want to acknowledge it at all, probably because of the political situation in our district.

    I would ask you if you've noticed any flexibility with your principal in the past or with other families. Is this a principal who is willing to focus on individual children or is he/she more interested in having a well-oiled machine? If your principal is more focused on keeping the faculty happy vs the parents, a conversation may not get you too far. We've had both kinds of principals and that makes all the difference.


    I don't see how it could hurt to meet. It could at the very least affect the choice of teacher for your kids. That's maybe the one thing that has been a positive affect of my advocating at our school, that the kids do tend to get placed in classes where the teachers are known for being good at differentiation. I don't think there's a downside to speaking with them, as long as you keep it positive and are sympathetic (or at least appear to be) to the limitations the administration has placed on them by the district.


    I've definitely had luck working with teachers, and expect to next year. But that takes time and I'm getting so tired of that lag time trying to get to know the teacher and their classroom schedule. If I could shoot an email early on and say, "So, Principal X says that in the past, Y has worked for motivated learners like my kid. Do you think it's possible to implement Y this year and if so how can I help?"

    The principal does invite input to help guide classroom placement every year, and I really think they've tried to put my kids with those types of teachers as I've requested. This year's form is due today which is why I'm instead meeting with the principal today. smile I just wanted to do it face-to-face for once.

    But my proactive friend who's met with him about this says he's "all talk." I am not sure what to expect.

    Emma...I'm trying, LOL. laugh

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    Originally Posted by EmmaL
    Embrace being THAT kind of parent. Just IMHO, eventually you kind of have to be.

    :-)

    Yes. One doesn't have to be a jerk or annoying, but if you don't speak up for your child, who will? (Advice given to me a few years ago by a friend who had experienced similar situations with schools.)

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    I came to the forum just now to vent about my very similar situation (although I've tried really hard already, and am a lot more fed up than you sound!), so am laughing a little to myself about finding your post.

    I have no great advice. I've talked to teachers, to the principal, etc. But I think you're doing the right thing by meeting face-to-face and at least trying. My kids are just a little older than yours, currently 4th and 6th grades. DD10 has had a horrible year (at least in part bc I didn't go meet with the principal at the end of last year!), and I've got to go have a talk about 5th grade soon. Meeting with the teacher on Monday, then will go chat with the principal. Its always exhausting.

    Hope the meeting goes (or went, by the time you see this!) well!!

    Last edited by Pinecroft; 05/19/17 09:05 AM.
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