Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment KTEA-3 Results

I got DD8's KTEA-3 report from the school today.
Her scores were:
ASB: 149
Reading Composite: 136
Math Composite: 142
Written Language Composite: 139

Her subscores were:
Letter and Word Recognition: 123
Reading Comprehension: 141
Math Concepts and Applications: 129
Math Computation: 148
Written Expression: 138
Spelling: 132
Phonological Processing: 115
Nonsense Word Decoding: 122
Silent Reading Fluency: 137
Word Recognition Fluency: 134
Decoding Fluency: 114
Reading Vocabulary: 145
Associational Fluency: 81
Object Naming Fluency: 108
Listening Comprehension: 125
Oral Expression: 141
Writing Fluency: 117

I'm really surprised that her language scores are lower than her math scores, because I definitely consider her stronger in language.

Is it worth it to apply for DYS, even though she's 3 points below having two scores >=145? I really don't think I can get the school to give her an IQ test. They were somewhat resistant to giving this, and said there's at least a six month wait for the psychologist for IQ testing.

Is ASB the overall composite? I would probably apply. It doesn't take a lot in money or time to send in an application, and it might work.

Yes. ASB is Academic Skills Battery, so the overall score.

1. Can't hurt to ask, especially if you need the advocacy/support resources.

2. Keep in mind that reading is made up of both decoding skills and comprehension. Once you reach fluent decoding, there is a hard ceiling on how high your score can go. Her decoding and encoding skills are high enough that there is likely little space to develop (beyond about the mid high school level in reading (and phonetic decoding tops out even earlier, late in middle school)). A highly-capable decoder of this age is usually limited on decoding scores by her vocabulary and experience, rather than her actual decoding skills. Comprehension is another matter. If you look at her reading comprehension, that is among her highest scores (along with math computation, written expression, and oral expression), which is a pattern of personal strength in higher-level language skills that is consistent with your anecdotal observations, as the only non-language score among them is calculations, rather than math reasoning.

Thanks aeh!

We could really use the advocacy for both DD and DS. Our district isn't quite sure how to handle them. DS7 will be taking the KTEA tomorrow. He's a bit more variable than her, so I don't know how his scores will turn out. They may be higher because he's younger, but his skills in some areas are comparable to or higher than hers, especially in math. He's a lot weaker in spelling and writing though.

The difference between comprehension and decoding really resonates with me. Thanks for pointing that out.

I just realized I missed the letter naming fluency score in my first post. That was 99. In the composites that use that, her score is lower because she's average at naming letters for a third grader. Makes me wonder what a kid that's highly above average in naming letters in third grade looks like.

I was surprised that her associative fluency was so low as well. We play lots of Scattegories, etc. and she's good at that.

Her lowest three scores are all timed tasks, two of which feed into the Oral Fluency composite. LNF does not, but is still a timed task. So it's not that she was necessarily inaccurate naming letters, but that she didn't say them very quickly.

Actually, in general, fluency is her lowest area, with only reading fluency for real words up in her cognitive range. But as you may know, quite a lot of GT individuals have relatively lower processing speed (not generally below average, but closer to average), without any particular pathology. On AF, she may have been trying to come up with unusual responses, instead of boring but qualifying answers. E.g., if I were to ask a student to name as many vehicles as they could in one minute, some children with very deep vocabularies would want to give "interesting" responses, like Lamborghini, Harrier Jump Jet (with or without its military or civilian model numbers), etc., which might take them a beat or two longer to come up with. Another student, who might actually have a smaller vocabulary, might take the efficient but not fancy route, with truck, pickup truck, semi truck, dump truck. Or sometimes I get students who will only name whole subcategories, so, for instance, once "truck" has been named, they won't say any other kind of truck, which results in lower scores, even though they actually know and can name many more kinds of trucks. If this matters at all to you, you could probably get an inkling of whether any of these situations were applicable by asking her 1) what she was asked to name a lot of, and 2) what she gave as answers. (I'm not giving the actual categories from any of the most common tests, in the interest of test security.) Given her vocabulary, I would guess that she was going for interesting and unique answers.

I finally got DS7's results today:
His scores were:
ASB: 141
Reading Composite: 133
Math Composite: 156
Written Language Composite: 107

His subscores were:
Letter and Word Recognition: 119
Reading Comprehension: 140
Math Concepts and Applications: 146
Math Computation: 160
Written Expression: 102
Spelling: 112
Phonological Processing: 117
Nonsense Word Decoding: 117
Silent Reading Fluency: 122
Word Recognition Fluency: 127
Reading Vocabulary: 101
Associational Fluency: 135
Object Naming Fluency: 88
Listening Comprehension: 144
Oral Expression: 136
Letter Naming Facility: 78
Writing Fluency: 83
Math Fluency: 107

Not much there that we didn't know. We can't keep up with him in math, his reading is strong, and his writing is weak.

He's four points below the cutoffs for DYS and DD8 was three points below. I was really hoping one of them would qualify to help us with advocacy. Do I apply anyway? Try to get private IQ testing done? Would the potential dysgraphia diagnosis help us here to "justify" his writing score being low?

I'm also starting to wonder if we need to look more into a stealth dyslexia diagnosis. He reads very, very well in context. But it seems like all of the subtests that require reading/identifying letters/words/pictures out of context or quickly are weaknesses. His associational fluency is high (unlike DD8's), but his object naming fluency is low. His letter naming facility is low, writing fluency is low, and math fluency is low compared to his other math scores. His reading vocabulary and word recognition scores don't really match his reading comprehension level (both from this test, DRA-2, and classroom experience). I think that he relies a lot on context to figure things out.

It feels like his highest scores are things he can do in his head, or had context clues for him to use. The lowest scores are identifying pictures/letters/words without context or quickly.

The other tests we have are
Beery VMI:
VMI: 93 %-ile, VP: 99.9 %-ile, MC: 30 %-ile

GFTA: <.01 %-ile

EVT: 99 %-ile

PPVT: 99.5 %-ile

DRA-2: 70

We have an IEP meeting next Monday to discuss OT, ST, and acceleration for next year. Where do we go from here?

I'd suggest applying. The application is a simple process and the worst outcome is not getting accepted.

From the website:

"Q. What if my child does not meet the minimum qualification criteria?
As we strive to serve the extreme of the gifted population, the scores listed on our website are considered to be the minimum eligibility requirements. However, we recognize that testing is only a small snapshot of a whole child and we take the entire application into consideration when determining eligibility. If the tester feels there were extraneous circumstances preventing a child from meeting the minimum criteria, a letter from the tester included with the application to explain the test scores will be considered in the review process. You may also review the Supplemental Information section on the Qualification Criteria page if you would like to include additional information that you believe may assist the review committee in making a decision. Many very bright students may not meet our qualification criteria for this program, but are likely to benefit from the information and free resources that the Davidson Institute makes available to the public via our websites, including our searchable Davidson Gifted Database, the public Gifted Issues discussion forum, and several guidebooks."

My son was slightly below the criteria - with a well documented reason that depressed his score. I applied anyway after much second-guessing and procrastination. I included one supplemental document - a letter explaining why I consider his score to be lower than actual ability and what evidence leads me to the conclusion. He was accepted! So it does happen!

You've received great advice above. Apply for both kids. I'll just add that if a child is not accepted into the DYS program at this time, you may reapply at a future date. A child is not limited to one application in a lifetime.

Here's more from the Davidson DYS webpages:
This would seem to indicate that scores just missing the cutoff (and within the standard error's confidence interval to include the cutoff score for eligibility) may be considered, depending upon the strength of other portions of the application...

also

Extenuating circumstances, as determined by the applicant and family...

Thank you! That's good to hear! I don't have a letter from the tester, and I'm not sure I could easily get one. The school was pretty reluctant to give the tests at all. I do have the OT report though, in regard to the writing difficulty.
His teacher would write an excellent letter for him. And he hit the ceiling (160) on the math computations test, so the math score could have potentially been higher.