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    #238258 05/09/17 12:21 PM
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    gmama Offline OP
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    My second grader has some strong wisc scores but is not broadly gifted, but I would appreciate your thoughts here anyway. His recent WISC-V scores showed verbal @ 130/98th, visual-spatial 108/70th, fluid reasoning 128/97th, working memory 110/75th, and processing speed 86/18th. The psychologist would not report FSIQ due to the pronounced spread in scores and reported his GAI at 127/96th.

    He has ADHD (was not properly medicated at the time of testing) and a developmental coordination disorder impacting visual-motor coordination (will be receiving vision therapy this summer followed by OT). We are working on getting him an IEP, but it is not in place yet.

    It was suggested to us based on his GAI (127/96th) that he would qualify for the TD program. However, it looks like the school insists on the FSIQ, which I'm sure is insufficient.

    Do you think the GAI might be accepted once his 504 is in place? Or should I accept that my "smart but slow" boy really just isn't suited for a TD classroom?

    Thanks for your thoughts!

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    You will have to ask as there are varied policies. Also check fit. Gifted programmes seem to often have high output requirements which may be a poor fit for your child.

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    You've received a great reply above. I'll just add three thoughts:

    1) Is there a reason why the child "was not properly medicated at the time of testing"?

    2) You mention an IEP and a 504.
    There are differences:
    - wrightslaw Wright summary
    - wrightslaw Ask the Advocate
    - Understood.org - side-by-side comparison

    3) In preparation for any potential advocacy efforts, check your State laws and your school policies. Basic advocacy info here.

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    gmama, my ds also has Developmental Coordination Disorder and has a higher GAI than FSIQ on the WISC. Our school district initially pretended not to know what GAI is and insisted on FSIQ, but were able to advocate successfully with GAI. The key to advocacy is to fully understand what the data you have represents, how it applies to your child, and what you want the school to provide for your child. Gather all the data you have (test scores, reports, classwork etc) and then advocate calmly and without hesitation or doubt. Just keep plugging away and chances are you can make the case for using the GAI in place of FSIQ for your ds to qualify.

    Originally Posted by puffin
    Also check fit. Gifted programmes seem to often have high output requirements which may be a poor fit for your child.

    It is true that gifted programs sometimes have high output requirements, but that doesn't mean they will be a poor fit for a child with output challenges, and it also doesn't mean the classroom won't be a good fit. My ds is incredibly challenged with written expression in elementary school (and still is - he's made great strides but he'll never be at the output level of the typical students in his gifted school program, yet the gifted program is where he does his best work, where he's happiest, and where he's by far the most successful as a student. His output challenge doesn't impact his intellectual abilities, and doesn't mean he learns slower - it's just one challenge. He had accommodations and individualized instruction through an IEP in elementary school, and he has a 504 plan in high school. He has accommodations that he uses and that allow him to be placed in the classroom that's appropriate for his intellectual level, not his fine motor level. One thing that parents sometimes don't realize can happen with 2e kids is that they respond better to remediation in an environment where they are intellectually challenged than they do in a slower paced classroom with easier academics. For example, my ds also has an expressive language disorder. Learning how to compose answers to open-ended questions was a *huge* challenge for him. He made no progress when placed in a regular (non-gifted) classroom with no gifted differentiation. He was frustrated not only with his inability to write, but also with the slow pace of the classroom discussion, and with the questions other students asked because they seemed so obvious to him - so he was miserable every day in school times two. When we moved him to a school which had a higher level of intellectual instruction and expectations, his frustration over the classroom instruction/discussion situation was relieved and he was able to receive help with writing at the level his brain was working. The combination worked and he made huge progress.

    For gmama, very early on when our ds was first diagnosed, it felt like we had to put 99-100% of the effort into helping him learn how to cope with and remediating his weaknesses, which is disheartening in many ways because it's hard work for the student, and takes a lot of time away from having time to pursue things children are interested in and also highly capable. But that early work focused on remediation and accommodation paid off in huge ways within a few short years.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    gmama Offline OP
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    Thanks for all of your quick replies! They are very helpful.

    To answer a few questions - he is getting a 504, not an IEP.

    He was not on an effective dose at the time of testing because we had just started the meds and the initial dose had no effect. We have since increased it and have seen quite positive changes.

    As for the fit of the program, I have spoken at length with the TD coordinator (she was the one who suggested we have him tested for access) and she says that there are many 2e kids in the program and he would do well in it. The 504 will also allow him to dictate and type more, which I believe will make a meaningful difference. He isn't a slow thinker, but slow to write. And, hopefully with vision therapy and OT, this will be improved to some extent.

    Off to browse the links - thanks again!


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    Originally Posted by gmama
    there are many 2e kids in the program and he would do well in it
    There is typically a cut-score for entry into a program. Do your school policies mention what the minimum qualifying score is? An FSIQ of 127 or a GAI of 127 may not be considered "gifted"; often that is 130+ or 132+, although your school's program may use different numbers, relative to its population's overall scores.

    2e or twice exceptional means both gifted and with a disability (including a learning disability). If your child is not gifted then his/her learning disability does not get a label of 2e.

    Unfortunately, many children's scores may fall just short of qualifying for any given program. As long as schools have quotas and maximum numbers of pupils that they choose to serve in any given program, some students will have their needs unmet. This approach is sometimes called "matching a child to the program." Needs may be better met by matching a program to the child; providing opportunities appropriate for the growth of each child.

    You might want to keep a record of the tests your child has taken, and consider re-testing at some point in the future.

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    gmama Offline OP
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    His GAI would get him into the program if they accept it (it's a "talent development" vs. "gifted" program). If they do not, he will qualify as "reading only" on the basis of his WISC VCI and reading achievement scores (I can't remember what his WJ scores are specifically but his recent NWEA reading score was 234/99th percentile for reading).

    Originally Posted by indigo
    Originally Posted by gmama
    there are many 2e kids in the program and he would do well in it
    There is typically a cut-score for entry into a program. Do your school policies mention what the minimum qualifying score is? An FSIQ of 127 or a GAI of 127 may not be considered "gifted"; often that is 130+ or 132+, although your school's program may use different numbers, relative to its population's overall scores.

    2e or twice exceptional means both gifted and with a disability (including a learning disability). If your child is not gifted then his/her learning disability does not get a label of 2e.

    Unfortunately, many children's scores may fall just short of qualifying for any given program. As long as schools have quotas and maximum numbers of pupils that they choose to serve in any given program, some students will have their needs unmet. This approach is sometimes called "matching a child to the program." Needs may be better met by matching a program to the child; providing opportunities appropriate for the growth of each child.

    You might want to keep a record of the tests your child has taken, and consider re-testing at some point in the future.

    Last edited by gmama; 05/10/17 08:13 AM.

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