Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion A few questions?

My daughter is probably starting preschool next year and the closer we get to starting school, the more...uncertain? I become in a way?

I suspect that I may have been a moderately gifted child. So much of what I've read about gifted kids resonates with me and my childhood. I don't think I've ever admitted it out loud because I was quite a day dreamer, scarcely remembered homework or paid attention, usually left completed said homework in my locker...I was kinda a nightmare to my parents in elementary school. When I hit high school things clicked and I felt like a big shot so freshman year I my lowest grade was something like a 98% final grade with no study skills, doing homework during other classes...they bumped me up to advance where I was all a's and 1 b per report card--again no studying and doing homework during school. My best graded papers tended to be the ones I totally forgot about and rushed through a period before it was due...and then I failed out of college...couldn't do my homework in other classes and no study skills. I don't know how relevant my own past is.

I've kinda browsed Ruff Estimates and I think there is a chance that my daughter MIGHT be gifted. If she is average intelligence or a little above or whatever where normal classes would challenge her to build those skills I lacked: I'd be happy with that.

But I'm just not sure on a lot right now. I'll read the Ruff Estimates for example and believe she is moderately gifted. Maybe in the 130's (which is where I think I may be in spite of my poor record). Then talk to a friend with a similarly aged child and their kids have the same traits. Then I'll talk to people in my mom group with older kids that they are working with on things my daughter seemed to have taught herself at least a year or 2 younger.

Then I start wondering maybe she is average intelligence but developed quickly because I try to keep an enriched environment and DO things with her. Like buying science kits and mixing colors or doing asl with her as a baby or having educational TV available or playing games with her. Then she will make these crazy connections or see a pattern and I'm like: WHERE did you learn that? (I.e. at age 3: she called herself our puppy' mommy. And she was pretending a stuffed animal of hers was the dog's puppy. So she comes up to me and tells me she is the grandma. I have no resources that would explain that to her and I didn't teach her that? And no daycare involved).

Then I wonder if I'm going to be accused of hot housing her because she seems to know a lot. She asks a lot of questions and I don't talk down to her and I actually make a point of trying to use words she wouldn't have heard before to explain stuff so she can hear new words in context.

So what's hot housing vs enriched environment?

What's the difference between a gifted kid and one who just has a good home environment?

How do you know if you are going to have to advocate for your child in school to get them challenged appropriately and for that matter, do schools even bother if the child has met benchmarks? If she IS gifted, then is her experience going to be on parents with mine where she can coast through without ever having to work? Or have they fixed that by now?

Any advice on what I should be doing to prepare in case the situation ends up being she is gifted? I don't really want her to grow up not learning the skills like study habits and putting real effort in. And I'd kinda like her to enjoy learning: gifted or not?

At her age, an "enriched environment" can make a difference. The effect wears off around 2nd grade, which is why many districts don't start gifted/talented until 2nd grade or later. (Which is way too late for the actually advanced children).

Hot-housing versus enriched environment, in my opinion, is all about who is taking the lead. Is the child intiating? Is the child showing interest or asking for more? My 22 month old LOVES flashcards. Flashcards are stereotypical hot-housing, but I'm over it. He adores flashcards, asks to play and asks for "more" until he is over it.

I am of the opinion that hot-housed kids are going to know colors, numbers, and alphabet - anything that's on a "is my child ready for Kindergarten" checklist, while bright children from an enriched environment are going to know a much wider range of material. My 22 month old doesn't know the banal alphabet song (thank god!) but he can identify a South American Gray Fox versus a Peruvian Dessert Fox on his Nat Geo flashcards. LOL!

I think you'll benefit from reading your state's educational statutes, looking for loopholes. Look at early Kindergarten enrollment (some states don't allow it). Look at homeschooling requirements. Look for any language related to gifted and talented programming. Check for open enrollment and virtual charter schools. Look at partial enrollment options too.

Request documents from the district too. Ask for their written acceleration policy, for example. It's not too early to start talking to building principals if early Kindergarten enrollment is an option in your state.

You can also stay in touch by attending school board meetings or even joining the school board! This is awesome experience so you see how all the loopholes work and what funding is (or is not) available!

A great think you can do for her is to build her "life experience" so she can relate to stories in books. If she is gifted, she may end up reading books she can't quite grasp for lack of life experiences when she is 4 - 6 years old. If she's not gifted, it's still an amazing life learning experience!!! For example, if she likes animals, take her to zoos, petting zoos, farms, animal shelters, etc. Then you can relate animal stories to her real experiences. This is quite powerful way of teaching children how books relate to life. If she doesn't have any particularly strong interests, think about the types of stories you'd enjoy reading to her. Laura Ingalls Wilder stories? Then find places to play in tall grass, watch farm animals, or even explore a log cabin.

If you are interested in letting her develop her focus and independence already (early study skills, you could say) you might find Montessori interesting. I just read Montessori From the Start - birth to age three, and Montessori At Home Guide (very thin book, doesn't stand alone very well) I learned so much about things that my youngest could do if only I'd let him. I adopted some things from the method yesterday and he is already responding. It's quite amazing!

Welcome!

This is THE place for parents learn from other parents who've BTDT. You will get a full 360-degree view of almost any situation... lots of differing viewpoints.

You've received excellent advice above. This rings true to my observation and experience. sanne's tips on reading State laws... and relating a child's reading to real life experiences... excellent!

Many parents learn about themselves while researching to help their children. You are not alone. There is an adult forum, but admittedly there are fewer posts about adults, than there are on the forums focused on our children's education.

This post may be of interest: What kids don't learn.

Ruff Estimates were developed based on a relatively small sample, simply because there are relatively few gifted kids. While indicative of LOG, they are a rather blunt instrument. In other words, don't place too much emphasis on them, don't rely on them too much.
Here is a brief roundup of lists of common behavioral characteristics of gifted kids (often called gifted checklists)...
- Characteristics of intellectually advanced young people
- NAGC's list borrowed from the book A Parent's Guide to Gifted Children
- Characteristics and Behaviors of the Gifted
- Characteristics checklist for gifted children
-Tips for Parents: Helping Parents Understand Their Profoundly Gifted Children
- Profiles of the gifted and talented which lists 6 different types, categorized by personality/temperament and achievement
- Bertie Kingore, Ph.D.: High Achieving, Gifted Learner, Creative Thinker?
- ages at which gifted children may reach developmental milestones

What is now called an "enriched environment" is simply good parenting... especially the interaction with the child, simply talking with the child so they learn vocabulary, the give-and-take of conversation, etc.



Yes, you will. This puts in you in good company. Don't internalize it; Don't take it to heart. Let it roll off, like water off a duck's back.

Good parenting.

In general...
Enriched = child-led.
Hot-housing or tiger-parenting = parent pushed.

This old post may be of interest.

In general...
gifted = internal; will apply those innate traits and native intelligence to whatever environment child is in.
good home environment ("enriched") = depends upon external stimulation; child may rather quickly cease learning when environment changes (rather than applying extreme curiosity, etc, to new environment).

By keeping lines of communication open with your child and noticing when there are unmet needs which are negatively impacting your child.

In this era of common core, which is focused on equal outcomes among all students in the classroom, no, a US public school will generally not attend to children's needs beyond those which are required to be met, in order to reach standards.

In my observation and experience, this is something which parents may need to attend to.

Advice: stay on this forum.

On the milestones listed in the link, she is often in the middle maybe a little closer to the early side. A few of them she beat. A couple of them she was normal. She sat up on her own at say 6 months, and her first social smile was right on at 6 weeks, so normal. But I can tell you that by 6 months she was meeting the 12 month milestones at the dr (all of them). But generally she missed the gifted cut offs in the milestone link by a couple of months.

I'm a work from home mom and playing with the toys and doing the voices is not my cup of tea. What I do instead is I play kids games with her and I set aside 1 hour when I get off work where we have planned activities. This is when we do a lot of the educational stuff. She asks me usually first thing in the morning if we are doing those things today and when I ask if she wants to she says yes. We build castles and try to build them to look like a picture on a box, I have a math type game that teaches preschool math concepts with farm animals, we learn letter sounds (she taught herself quite a few of them from a TV show when she was younger. She skipped learning their names though so I just go with what she wants to remember-sounds). We have little toddler sciemce kits where we mix food coloring and water to make colors and then she can mix them with the pipette. She would do the activities in these kits all day every day if I let her and shows everyone who comes over her most recent "science experiment." Or with the letter we do, I teach her the asl that goes to the letter (the program wants her to body spell but it made more sense to me to do the asl) and if we go out to eat with someone she happily starts hissing letter sounds at them and holding up the sign. It cracks me up.

I also picked a few things she did not enjoy that I put on a shelf and quit doing with her. I only keep the projects she enjoys.

Or she taught herself to count to 10 well before age 2. But she would skip letters. So I would practice counting to 10 with her because she was ALWAYS counting to 10. And she did the same with counting to 20 next.

And if I had to pick her topic of interest--anatomy. She has to know what everything is. Not just this is the eye: what is the pink thing (tear duct) what are the hairs? What is the part that closes over the eye? What are the hairs in your nose? What is the hard thing (bone). What are bones made of?

And then she is intense with books. From under age 2 she will sit for HOURS. If I say storytime it is a STACK of books. Some longer some shorter. If it's shorter she will have me read it 2 or 3 times then she has to "read" it to me. She started that a little younger than 2, and it has grown. I'm nearly positive it is memorizing and telling back and not reading though.

So some of it is child led and some of it I introduce to her and if she likes it we keep doing it. So I guess that stuff would be parent led? Should I stop introducing new things? I'm guessing I walk a balance between enriched since i follow her lead too and hot housing since I do introduce concepts to her as well to see if I inspire an interest?

(And we get zoo memberships to go to the zoo. I try to get us out of the house as much as I can. Amusement parks, playgrounds, walks on trails in parks, beaches, science centers.)

She recently started talking about when we fed the giraffes at the zoo over a year ago so we are gearing up to go soon and see if they have the giraffes out to be fed again.

I might sound crazy: I have looked into a lot of what was mentioned. Ohio has to identify gifted learners but that's it. District has no differentiation until 3rd or 4th grade. I am in a highly rated district and there are not a lot of charters. 45 min away there is a gifted school, buuut it might be problematic getting her in the winter as it is in snowbelt. I would love to homeschool but my ex would have to give his blessing and the odds are low. I've been thinking about afterschooling if she doesn't seem challenged and I can't get teachers to budge? I know I can demand her be tested from the district at anytime but I don't think they have to give her a unique education plan if she is identified.

We have early entry kindergarten and I will look into the school board meetings never thought of that one.

And I Def will stay on the forum!

I see introducing as normal good parenting.

Yes, unfortunately this is quite common. I say unfortunately because ideally kids should get academic instruction in the ZPD during the school day and have after-school time to dedicate to other types of learning experiences.

This sounds a bit harsh. Parents usually "request"... and the State law and/or school policies ensure compliance.

The answer will be found in the State Laws and/or school policies.

Before you decide on early kindergarten, you may wish to read this roundup of discussion threads and resources on the pros-and-cons of acceleration. There is good and bad in everything. I am pro acceleration... believing it to often be the least-worst option when schools do not provide a gifted student with instruction in their ZPD, in the company of academic/intellectual peers.

Great! We need parents to stay and help other newcomers.

Welcome! Indigo has given you a lot of great advice.

Ok demand may have been harshlying worded. If I ask for it I believe I read in the state laws they have to test her. Wrong wording. My bad.

I will read through the link for pros and cons of acceleration. Not knowing right now if she is or isn't I think it might be jumping the gun. Maybe i should test her sooner rather than later? See where she falls.

I'm leaning a bit more towards moderately gifted given the descriptions. For about a year after her dad left I didn't really work with her (age 1.5 to 2.5) and her vocabulary and speech grew rapidly. That's when she started teaching herself to count. And I did still read to her but also was the time she taught herself to read. And she made a few other surprising connections in that time of transition. She Def did not stop learning when I couldn't plan learning activities.

She still had access to educational videos while I worked and games on her tablet (I wish I had been more hands on with her during the transition. My head just wasn't in a good place. Which of course is not a good excuse--she was in transition too).

Maybe once she starts preschool her preschool teacher will be a better judge? She sees kids in the age group every day. She would maybe know more of what's normal range?

Sorry to double post, reading through some of the thread about skipping K (I know we are talking about early K here), given d's personality so far, I don't think early K would be the best bet. She loves to learn, but not so much sit at a desk. She's not as much a fan of work books or even coloring books. I think she would enjoy things like circle time and kids songs and rhymes. I think I'd like to give her more time of "being a kid." Since she does pretty decent socially (I wasn't obviously asynchronous in my development either. Although in high school once I started applying myself in ways stated before, I was more socially awkward). That said, she isn't very asynchronous and gets along with kids her age but is also drawn to older kids at my mommy club.

If she is asynchronous I think it is more in having age appropriate development where she desires more. She loves crafts and drawing, but she recently boycotted drawing for a bit because she couldn't make her drawing look the way she wanted. She was trying to draw Skye from paw patrol but drew her as a circle and it frustrated her to the point of not drawing for a while...so unless that counts? But she isn't really asynchronous as far as being BEHIND the curve on stuff?

I think I'd be more open to a skip down the road. I want her to be challenged, but I also don't want her to lose her love of learning and I don't know if she is ready for desk work learning?

LOL, saying "demand" here in the forum, most parents of gifted kids will understand your meaning, however this is a public forum and others in the general population (including those with typical IQ and teachers/administrators) may point to that phraseology as proving their viewpoint that parents of gifted children are "demanding".

Not to be the vocabulary police, but words can have different shades of meaning to different people, groups of people, or populations.

Regarding teachers, some may be able to correctly identify kids who are ahead, but not so much those who are gifted. Here's a link to a page with several posts which together are a snippet of recent discussion on whether teachers can identify gifted kids (spoiler follows ) Regarding "normal" or normal range... Here I will add that James Webb (founder of SENG and author of A Parents Guide to Gifted Children) often made the distinction between "normal" and "typical"; Gifted kids are "normal", they just are not "typical". The distinction is in the difference to a child's self-esteem: not being normal feels bad (abnormal), not being typical feels OK.

To help your child draw Skye from paw patrol (and other things) you may want to help her break down the image into its constituent parts.

One way is to use graph paper or draw a grid, to help isolate the different parts and examine their spacing and relationship to each other.

The out-of-print but still available American Girl book "Doodle Studio" shows a step-by-step method of drawing/doodling.

Possibly more advanced, the book "Drawing on the Right Side of the Brain" uses a method of turning an image upside-down to analyze the various components to copy/draw.

Over time, posters have mentioned several art and drawing books which their children have enjoyed. Using the forum's search feature may help locate those.

I searched a bit... here is a brief roundup of a few drawing-related threads which may be of interest:
- drawing books (Dec 2014)
- Ultimate Art Thread (Oct 2013)
- Artistic Creativity in your gifted child (July 2013)
- Drawings as a sign of giftedness? (Feb 2016)
- Nurturing the artistic child (Jan 2013)
- The "Draw a person" test (Feb 2016)
- Q for parents of artists (July 2012)
- Teaching art (July 2012)