Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Spelling/Grammar Issues - Dyslexia or Dysgraphia?

DS9 struggles with writing, fine motor, spelling, grammar, and punctuation. However he is an avid reader with no comprehension issues that is reading either at a high school or college level. While not officially diagnosed, I am positive he is dysgraphic, and teachers/professionals agree. From the reading I have done, both dyslexia and dysgraphia can cause issues with spelling and grammar. Outside of an official evaluation, are there ways to understand if the spelling/grammar issues are caused by the dysgraphia or if it is dyslexia?

I'll offer up a few suggestions based on my experience as a parent of a dysgraphic child and also as a parent of a child who has a reading challenge (not traditionally dyslexic) - but first I'll add that the singular most helpful thing to me was to have a diagnosis by a professional, and I believe that it was ultimately extremely helpful to my children too. Having a diagnosis meant they didn't have to wonder why they were struggling; having a diagnosis meant I was able to make sure they had appropriate remediation and accommodations. Having a diagnosis by a professional was also extremely helpful in advocating for resources, remediation and accommodation. Last thing - having a professional explain what was up with my kids was really important, because all the researching and really great guessing I was doing on my own didn't lead me down the right path.. but there was no way of knowing that without having a professional look at global functioning.

That said, what you've written sounds a lot like dysgraphia. It also sounds like he's been diagnosed with dysgraphia through a professional eval (?). A few things you could do at home to help determine whether or not the grammar issues your ds is dealing with reading challenge vs dysgraphia (or maybe dealing with both):

1) Does his grammar improve when he uses technology? If it does, that's a sign that the issues with grammar are due to dysgraphia. If he still has grammar issues when he's using keyboarding or oral response, it could be something more.

2) Do you know that his reading comprehension is as high as the level of books he's reading? Has he been tested for comprehension, or have you read the same books he's reading and had a discussion with him about the books? What is his oral reading like? If you have any questions about these, it might be more than dysgraphia.

Re spelling, it might improve with typing or might not (for dysgraphia). However, if the spelling challenge is solely due to dysgraphia, you might note that spelling individual words, such as during a spelling test, doesn't pose an issue, but spelling while writing (a paragraph, story, etc) is an issue.

Last thing I'll mention - if your ds has been evaluated by a professional, did they note any issues with fine motor specifically? Dysgraphia is an inability to develop automaticity of handwriting (i.e., a disconnect between what the finger muscles involved in fine motor need to do vs the brain instructing them to do it) whereas an actual fine motor disorder means there is an additional challenge with the fine motor functioning. My ds' primary diagnosis is Developmental Coordination Disorder, which impacts his fine motor functioning, and secondary to DCD he's dysgraphic. The impact of the DCD means that his dysgraphia isn't as easily resolved by giving him a keyboard as it is for kids who don't have a fine motor challenge. Hope that makes sense!

Best wishes,

polarbear

ps - fwiw, diagnosing and understanding my dd's reading challenge has been much more complex than recognizing/diagnosing/understanding my dysgraphic ds' challenges - when fine motor/etc is involved, it's not easy to slide under the radar. With the combination of a high ability child and a reading challenge, it's much easier for the child to compensate and come up with ways of not showing that there's a struggle. Personality also plays a part - my ds was quite open with acknowledging he was struggling, my dd does not want anyone to know she's not on top of the world in all areas of ability, so from an early age she went to great lengths to hide the fact that she wasn't comprehending what she was reading. I'm not saying that's the case with your ds at all - but it was around 3rd-4th grade that my dd's ability to keep ahead with her pretending everything was ok started to crumble as the pace of actual reading for learning in the classroom stepped up. If your ds is actually testing at a high level of reading comprehension then I wouldn't give it a second thought... but if you have any doubts about reading, I'd recommend an evaluation.

One should be very hesitant about self-diagnosing a child with dyslexia or dysgraphia, let alone differentially diagnosing between the two (unless one happens to be an assessment professional oneself, of course!--but even then, one should be cautious, as it is easy to lose objectivity as a parent). OTOH, I believe strongly in the intuition of involved parents that there is -something- going on. So if you feel there is some kind of obstacle to the free development/expression of your child's ability, I would agree that the first step is to pursue a comprehensive evaluation. If you already have such an evaluation in hand, I would follow-up with the evaluator regarding any questions you have with dyslexia/dysgraphia, and whether those are covered by your existing assessment data.

Just a quick response before I run out the door. I'll answer polarbear's questions a bit later...

aeh- I absolutely agree we need to get a professional involved, and we plan to do this. For a number of reasons, we can't do it right now and will have to wait just a little bit. This is more for my own knowledge until we can have the formal evaluation done as I'm just trying to understand the best that I can on my own what might be going on. Not only does my mommy-gut say something is going on, but the school agrees as well as it is obvious.

polarbear - Thanks for the long response.

He was officially diagnosed with Developmental Coordination Disorder but never officially diganosed with dysgraphia. However talking with the neuropsych after the eval as well as a tutor we have used for spelling/writing and OT for handwriting, they all said it fits him.

1) His grammar issues are written issues - capitalization, punctuation, and identifying parts of speech/parts of sentences. When speaking with him or even if you read what he writes on the computer (ignoring run-on sentences), there are no concerns or issues.

2) There is no question about his reading comprehension. This is based on not only testing such as the NWEA MAP where his lexile is in the high school range, but also in discussing with him what he has read. Most non-fiction books he reads these days are adult books, and this is by choice. He finds that the children level "don't have enough depth and aren't complex enough" - his words. I know he is comprehending them because of the conversations he will have with us after reading them. There is no way he could know/understand what he does if he didn't have the comprehension. His teachers for years have also commented on his advanced comprehension.

His spelling seems to be terrible whether writing individual words or writing a story/paragraph. I'm not clear if there is a significant difference in his spelling when typing vs handwriting vs oral.

When younger he did Handwriting Without Tears, and the OT told us at that time that he lacks automaticity in his handwriting.

As I mentioned in my response to aeh, I know we need to get an official eval to look into this more. We just can't do it right now, and I'm trying to figure out how to help him best until we can. Also having more insight into what is going on helps me.

Hi all. I'm new here. Trying to figure some things out...
Could I ask who would be best to diagnose dysgraphia?
My son who is 7.5 has very neat handwriting and is an above average speller but just hates having to write. He'll sometimes write in really tiny
print or he'll just stare at the page and cry that it's just so boring. He'll start to write and then fling his pencil across the room. He'll choose one word answers just to avoid a sentence. He reads and comprehends at a gifted level but when he is required to write he hits a wall. Literally & Figuratively. Could that still be dysgraphia?

All of these details sound more like dysgraphia than dyslexia to me, although I agree with aeh that he needs a full evaluation.

BlessedMommy, everything you've written fits with a diagnosis of Developmental Coordination Disorder, and nothing raises a red flag outside of DCD which might indicate Dyslexia - so, jmo, based on this additional info, I think you have what you need to move forward with accommodations and remediation. The DCD diagnosis combined with observations by yourself and teachers re academic work should be sufficient to get your ds the accommodations and help he needs at school (and should be what is needed to advocate for either an IEP or a 504 plan).

Dysgraphia is limited to an impact on development of automaticity of handwriting; People with DCD often have issues with development of automaticity of handwriting but also are challenged by a wider umbrella of symptoms. The accommodations for the handwriting challenges due to DCD or dysgraphia are essentially the same, although some people with DCD, like my ds, are not able to develop quick keyboarding skills due to the additional fine motor challenges of DCD.

For grammar: does your ds understand grammar concepts when they are taught independently of writing essays/stories/etc? If so, let him learn grammar that way, and provide him with keyboarding or voice-to-text or scribing (while he's young) when writing paragraphs etc.

For spelling, study spelling as it's own subject, but for writing assignments let him keyboard and use word prediction and auto-spell-correct. This won't eliminate 100% of his spelling errors; proof-read his work for him. Ask for an accommodation that allows for him to not be marked off on grades due to spelling errors when using handwriting.

The fact that he's a strong reader is also going to help him tremendously with spelling and grammar and eventually will help him with written composition.

If the school thinks it's important to understand whether or not dysgraphia is also a diagnosis (in addition to DCD), then request an evaluation through the school. They *should* be able to provide this. Our ds wasn't diagnosed through the schools, but I'll list his diagnosis history here because it illustrates how the path to an absolute diagnosis isn't necessarily straightforward, and how the names of diagnoses can get confusing based on who is diagnosing. And... I'll repeat... even though it might not sound like it after you read this, ds' diagnosis was *much* more straightforward than my dd who has reading challenges

DS' first diagnosis was DCD, thru a neuropsych eval at the end of 2nd grade. After receiving the neuropsych's report I found information about dysgraphia for the first time online, it seemed to fit, so I returned to the neuropsych and asked if he might have dysgraphia. The neuropsych said "yes". Nothing official on paper, just that acknowledgement that his DCD symptoms fit dysgraphia. I believe that the neuropsych diagnosis didn't mention dysgraphia specifically because it wasn't included in the DSM when he was diagnosed. The neuropsych also mentioned that she used the language she did in her report because it was the language school staff would recognize and acknowledge. As part of ds' recommended remediation, he was referred for an OT evaluation for handwriting OT. That evaluation did *not* diagnose him with dysgraphia, but instead found him to be a good candidate for handwriting remediation based on his fine motor abilities. If you look at that report, it looks like he's a-ok but the report is actually stating that he has enough fine motor ability to benefit from handwriting remediation. It doesn't mention that he is dysgraphic, but if he didn't have DCD and dysgraphic challenges, he would not have needed handwriting OT. A few years later, when it became clear ds had difficulties with expressive language, he went through an evaluation by an SLP who diagnosed him with dysgraphia as well as an expressive language disorder. If he hadn't had the expressive language challenge, he never would have had a report from any professional stating that he has dysgraphia - but the DCD diagnosis was useful and appropriate from the start for advocating for and understanding his needs re support and accommodations for handwriting/spelling/grammar/punctuation/etc.

Hope that makes sense!

DS is now a teen almost out of high school, and he'll be the first to tell you, he's dysgraphic He also still relies on keyboarding, word prediction, spell-check and proof-reading

Ethinx, it's possible it could be dysgraphia, but often with dysgraphia a child will have poor legibility of handwriting, an odd pencil grip, will hold their wrist or sit in an odd position while writing, have uneven pencil pressure, mix caps and lower case, can't spell while writing etc. There are different types of dysgraphia which you can read about by googling and see if any seem to fit.

That said, another thing that *might* be at play (and please understand, I'm a mom, not a professional!)... is that he's having difficulty with forming the expressive language needed to write. My dysgraphic ds also has challenges with expressive writing, and his behavior when tasked with a writing assignment at the same age was very similar, although he had the added issue of obvious dysgraphia. One thing you might try at home (if you haven't already) is to have him scribe his writing to you or use a keyboard and see if his total volume of output increases and if his stress/frustration/refusal to write decreases. If it *doesn't* I'd suggest seeking out an evaluation through a Speech Language Pathologist and also ask that he be evaluated using the Test of Written Language (TOWL) - this is a test that is widely used by schools when evaluating for writing LDs.

Best wishes,

polarbear

Thank you polarbear. We've given both dictation and typing a try with little success. I think what you describe in difficulty forming expressive language sounds very much like what he struggles with. He's seeing a speech pathologist now (she's auditory testing him). I'll definitely request the TOWL.
He has difficulty expressing his emotions so I wonder if there is a connection.
Thanks again...sounds like you've been through a lot!

Ethinx

Ethinx- I just I would share some apps that my DSs were given from our district. WordQ, Capti
BBC Dance Mat Typing http://www.bbc.co.uk/guides/z3c6tfr
Typeracer http://play.typeracer.com/
Typing Test http://www.typingtest.com/
FreeTyping Games http://www.freetypinggame.net/
Power Typing http://www.powertyping.com/
Tux Typing https://tux4kids.alioth.debian.org/tuxtype/
Learn 2 Type http://www.learn2type.com/

All 3 of my DSs have language disorders and automaticity issues. 2 have dysgraphia. We were able to get OT and assistive technology district evaluations that helped better understand the specific fine motor weakness for one DS and get district trial macbooks.

There might be a connection - you might want to pay attention to and think through what types of situations lead to easy flow of conversation vs lack of conversation with him (same for written work). Our ds didn't appear to have an expressive language issue because there were things he could talk about, and when he talked he sounded like the highly intelligent kid that he is - but if you paid close attention, those conversations where the words flowed easily were conversations that centered on factual information or ideas he could put together with facts he knew, such as how he might want to build a better roadway etc. When he was asked to answer an open-ended question he struggled. This was impacting his writing at school from day one, but the difference in ability to respond to different types of prompts wasn't that apparent until he was around 4th grade and the level of writing assignment in the classroom increased past basic learn-to-write exercises. It was around the same age that he began to be able to explain to us that he was having trouble answering questions during conversations. When he was younger, he seemed to be intimidated when talking to teachers - he'd be very quiet, and want either myself or my dh to talk for him - we attributed this to his age, but really it was due to lack of having a clue what to say or how to carry on the conversation. DS went through around 4-5 years of speech therapy for expressive language once we realized there was a challenge, and that helped tremendously... but now that he's a teen we can still see signs of the same type of challenges, and expressing what he's thinking and feeling don't come naturally to him, he has to work at it.

polarbear

Thank you for all the advice. We plan to get additional testing in the near future to help us understand what is going on.

I've been looking around for a short video to help explain DCD/dyspraxia to the school as well as family. I have found the ones that talk about the obvious difficulties around fine motor/gross motor. However I'm looking for something that talks about some of the other struggles someone with DCD/dysgraphia might face - increased frustration/emotions, needing tasks broken up into smaller steps, easily distracted/fidgety, etc. Does anyone have a favorite?

Also are there any books you can recommend? DS's school doesn't understand DCD, so I'm trying to put together some quick, easy to understand info for them as I know they aren't going to want to read lots of articles or books.

I'm not at home at the moment, so can't send you any links... but fwiw, when we've advocated at school we've found teachers/staff aren't really terribly interested in learning about DCD/dyspraxia in general, but more focused on how it specifically our ds is impacted - hence the most helpful thing we have shared wasn't links to videos or articles or scholarly research etc, but rather a list of how our ds was impacted academically and accommodations/etc that helped limit the impact.

We also found it easiest to receive (without a lot of questions and without a need to link the "why" to the diagnosis) accommodations that are fairly widely used ("typical"). Accommodations such as breaking tasks up into smaller steps are accommodations that span a range of diagnoses. Our state's Special Ed website contains a handbook with "typical" accommodations, and the same list is also available in our school district's Sped Policy handbook - anything we requested off of this list was an easy ask; anything we requested that wasn't on this list required a bit of lobbying - that's where being able to say "this is a typical need" or challenge for students with dyspraxia helped, but rather than being interested in documentation on dyspraxia, our teachers/staff were usually more interested in having us explain and demonstrate how the requested accommodation would help our ds. Hope that makes sense!

Best wishes,

polarbear

I'll look thru the links/etc I have when I'm back home.

Hi there: You might find this website helpful. There are a number of "flyers" you can print out for educations/ phys ed teachers etc.

https://canchild.ca/en/diagnoses/developmental-coordination-disorder

polarbear - yes, I agree they aren't going to be that interested in the details. However I think it would help them better appreciate what is hard for him if they had a high-level understanding. Simple things like not only will his handwriting be hard to read, but his artwork may look like a preschooler's. When he is spacing out it isn't because he isn't trying... those kinds of things.

Hi again BlessedMommy --- I just noticed that the link I included in my earlier post wasn't working, so I fixed it. I really commend that website to you, as it has all sorts of great information on it. For example, there is this 2007 paper about teachers' perceptions of the motor skills issues of kids with DCD.

https://canchild.ca/system/tenon/as...D_Understanding_Teachers_Perceptions.pdf

Ethinx, your DC is actually too young for the TOWL. I would suggest the OWLS-II (Oral and Written Language Scales) instead, or the PAL-II (Process Assessment of the Learner - Reading & Writing). If both the written and oral portions of the OWLS are given, that will also give you some information on how much is language per se, and how much is specific to writing.

For pure expressive language, the slp may also choose to give the CELF-5 (this tests oral language only). The auditory processing (I assume) eval he's undergoing will not assess expressive language (though it may find other notable features).