Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Parenting and Advocacy Devos Confirmation

Agreed.
- Making one's voice known to legislators and advocacy groups is one way in which parents can exercise their power.
- Advocacy at various levels is another way for parents to exercise power.
- Knowledge is power. Reviewing the Federal Register may help acquaint parents with current issues, on a timely basis.
- Running for office, from school board to alderman to State and National offices is another way for parents to exercise power.
- Creating micro-schools is another.
- Exercising one's power by homeschooling is another.

Vouchers may put another choice or option before parents, and in some cases these may be viable options... in other cases the voucher schools or charters may present a distinction without a difference for the children who attend them.

There is good and bad in everything. The current educational system arose under a previous administration, and the current administration has indicated it wishes to place "outsiders" in many roles. It remains to be seen how much DeVos may change the Department of Education, and how much the Department of Education may change her.

Well said. But from all I have read she wants to do the right thing. Why else would she try to spend so much of her own money in tangling with this thankless problem. She could do as so many others do, send your kids to private school/wealthy district and ignore the problem.

DeVos is a huge proponent of charter schools.

Speaking of Detroit:


It sounds to me like charter schools are not exactly saving education in Detroit --- in spite of not having to follow all those burdensome regulations the public schools have to follow, like taking all comers.

IMO, there's a lot of ideology driving the "school choice" movement. Certainly, the facts aren't driving it, given the above and the performances of many other charters (e.g. Magnolia Science Academy, which has closed 3+ schools due to financial irregularities).

Not to mention VR00's disparaging of Detroit public schools while sparing the charters' equally bad performance. Unless I've missed some alternative facts ( ), this is ideology talking.


Yes, there are problems in public schools, and they're caused in part by factors I noted above. But it seems to me that lack of oversight in charter schools creates problems with equivalent results (poor education). Yet advocates for charter schools will still make excuses for them, because...ideology.

We will never fix our education problems until we stop looking to free market solutions on one side or the status quo on the other. But as I said, I don't think that Betsy DeVos cares about fixing problems so much as...something else. Perhaps, something like building God's kingdom. Gee, I didn't know that Jerry Falwell was Trump's first pick for Secretary of Education.

Val, Are you disagreeing about the assessment of Detriot schools?
I never argued that all charter schools are going to be great. My only experience with one is Davidson Academy which would not exist if they had to accept whoever applies.

The argument is for putting the choice in parents hands. One needs to believe that parents know what is good for their children. I cannot count how many times I have stood before a school official who says "They know what is best for the kid". You and I can walk and pay for any number of alternate options as you described. What choice does a poor parent have?

I am not sure why there is so much venom against a person who wants to provide this choice. If the parents want to spend the money on parochial education why should we stand in their way? Some of the best schools in the country started as parochial schools. The answer is some reasonable form of accreditation.

No idea why the Jerry Falwell boogieman argument is thrown in here.

Val, interesting article.

1) I would tend to agree that low test scores would be a red flag. But not under all circumstances... For example: Many people are opposed to excessive "standardized testing" and "teaching to the test". One of the functions of standardized testing is to influence/persuade/pressure schools to adopt CCSS (or else the school's test scores would be low). Some teachers have stated that children with the readiness and ability to work on advanced curriculum are not allowed to do so, as studying advanced material which is not on the grade-level standardized test may result in a lower score.

I would want to know more. For example:
- Does this school teach to the test?
- Does this school use a curriculum which is not aligned to the standardized test topics and timing?
- Does this school follow a different set of standards which is believed to serve the local community well?
- Is there project-based learning?
- Are students developing and exhibiting internal locus of control? (Do they "own" their educational decisions?)
- Are there other measures which indicate learning and growth? (Writing essays, presenting speeches, etc)

If the educational progress truly is substandard, are there environmental factors which may be exhibiting a negative influence? (Specific to Detroit, MI... is any delay in educational progress directly attributable to lead which has been found in drinking water?)

2) IMO, An excessive salary, which is not commensurate with experience, credentials, and results is a red flag. I would want to know more. For example:
- What are the job's minimum and preferred qualifications?
- What is the industry salary range and mid-point for the position?
- What is the job description?
- What duties does the job entail?
- What are the goals for the position?
- What are the expectations for learning curve, performance review, feedback, follow-up, accountability, dismissal, etc?

3) Financial irregularities are a red flag. I would want to know:
- was one person embezzling?
- was there a widespread, pervasive, systemic problem?

4) Because there is good and bad in everything, for each decision made, I would want to know:
- Who benefits?
- Who is empowered?
- What are the constraints/parameters?
- Who are the decision makers?
- What are the PROs and CONs?
- How to minimize the downside/drawbacks/negatives?
- How will we know if the decision is achieving the desired results?
- How frequently will the decision be reviewed? By whom?
- Who will be notified of decisions? By what means?
I believe the focus must always be on the benefit to the student, and by extension, the student's family. A focus on benefiting or growing anything else (such as data collection, research, government, business profit, union salary and benefits) is a red flag.

5) There may be over-paid individuals in both the private sector and government. Ideally, in a perfect world, each entity may provide balance and a reality check for the other.

6) The current education system was developed under a series of different administrations. It remains to be seen how much DeVos may change the Department of Education, and how much the Department of Education may change DeVos.

I believe it is important to encourage parents in this.
- Some people may begin development of this skill in childhood, effortlessly as if by osmosis while casually observing their parents... and later as parents themselves leverage these memories in being supportive to the next generation.
- Other parents, without having had the benefit of someone to emulate in developing this skill, may learn as adults how to identify what their child needs to flourish.

Or strong local control... holding a school accountable specifically to students and parents. In this context, strong bottom-up local control may somewhat minimize top-down influence of DeVos and/or Department of Education.

I'm saying that you criticized the Detroit public schools for failing students, but ignored the fact that charter schools have a bad-to-rock-bottom record in Detroit. Charters are heavily promoted by DeVos, yet you've said she's a good choice who wants to "do the right thing."

Surely, someone who wants to do the right thing would be critical of these poorly performing schools. But she defends them. Alternative facts?

"School choice" is a myth for a majority of Americans that's promoted by people with an agenda all their own.


NB: The DA isn't a charter school. It's a public school with an IQ cutoff (like the HG+ schools in LA and many other similar public schools in the US).

What exactly are charter schools? Because here, they are public schools and they have to take anyone who applies if there is space (if there isn't, they hold a lottery). They have to do the State standards and they have to give the State tests. The main difference is that the school board is pretty much hand-selected rather than elected and if there is a property tax referendum (which can be as much as 15 percent of a district's budget, maybe more), they are not eligible for that. Kids are even bused to charters, if they live within the school district boundaries where the charter is located. I always find it ironic how public school districts claim they are going to have to cut basically everything if a referendum doesn't pass, yet charters do fine without that money. Many charters don't have a lot of extracurriculars though, the way most public school districts do.

Our public district was threatening all sorts of cuts if voters didn't approve the latest levy...like cutting special ed, teachers, increasing class sizes (many elementary classes now have more than 30 kids, even though they DID pass the levy), eliminating music programs, eliminating sports, etc. etc. Most of those cuts ended up happening even though the voters gave them the money. Our Super is paid about $230,000 if you include benefits, which is ridiculous considering how much they gripe about their budget issues. With salaries like that, then it makes sense they can't afford to have school 5 days per week and need to put 40 students in a class if a levy doesn't pass. So even public districts are subject to corruption. Ours is a classic example and there are multiple lawsuits from a parent group currently pending against the district for conflicts of interest, violating open meeting laws, closing school buildings even though they don't have a valid reason and financially don't need to, etc. People complain about laws and mandates but I would actually like to see more. For instance, they can't give themselves salary raises if they are cutting programs, cutting teachers, increasing class sizes, closing schools, etc.

Here is the full description of charter schools from wikipedia. While the entries on wikipedia are crowd-sourced and anyone can contribute to them, the entries often contain a bibliography of meaningful, credible, authoritative source documents in their "References" section, located at the end of the entry.

Here is the wikipedia entry on school vouchers.

Here is a research report on school choice:
Empirical Evidence on School Choice, 4th edition, by Dr. Greg Forster Ph.D., May 2016, Friedman Foundation.
This is one of many available on the website edchoice.org.

The current US public education system has developed under other administrations; It remains to be seen how much DeVos may change the US Department of Education and how much the US Department of Education may change DeVos.

This rule is usually true on paper, but not in practice. For example, see this report by Reuters about the many ways that charter schools get around it. The quoted information bellow is only a small portion of what the journalists learned.


It's a lack of oversight thing.