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Hi all, I have been sort of concerned for a long time about some issues with DS6's (ADHD, Tourette's) reading. He started reading early, learned letters and letter sounds before 2, learned to sound out and spell words at 2, was able to read simple readers at 3 and more difficult readers/early chapter books at 4. At 5 he was still on early chapter books and his reading seemed to actually get worse, especially speed. Now he is 6, almost 7, and he is still pretty much on early chapter books. He has read some harder things, like Winnie the Pooh, The World According to Humphrey, Beezus and Ramona, Roald Dahl books, etc., but with his slow reading and just listening to him read, I think that he's still more at the Magic Tree House level where he was 2 years ago. I feel like he mastered the basics and then reading just failed to take off like I expected. He does enjoy reading, but not a lot and rarely reads unless I suggest it or even reward it. He also is fine to read instructions in games he wants to play or on worksheets. He often reads signs when we are out and about just because he is interested in what they have to say, so I have to assume that reading isn't super difficult or anything.

Today he told me (after taking his mid year map testing) that the test was easy but that there were some questions that were hard. It turns out they were the ones where you read something and answer questions about it. Presumably reading comprehension. He told me that he often forgets the last sentence when he reads the next one. He says he understands what he is reading, he just can't remember it while he is reading the next sentence. He indicated that this is also a problem when we read aloud to him. I never suspected this as he loves for us to read to him and he gets really into the stories and seems to follow along well with everything we read. He even had me reread Wind in the Willows right after I finished it because he liked it so much and even I sometimes got lost in the run on sentences in that book.

He is currently attending a gifted school and I was told at the beginning of the year that his comprehension was around 2nd grade level, but inferential skills were at grade level (1). This contrasts with math where he is at 4th grade+ and learning algebra and calculus for enrichment. I know that he isn't necessarily going to be gifted in everything equally, but it feels like reading skills just stalled out and may end up going from years ahead to below average by next year. Something seems wrong about this.

We also have writing issues. DS often complains about the amount of writing required at school and does not complete written assignments. He writes the bare minimum if anything. He can give the answers orally to questions. Looking at writing samples online I think he is writing at or slightly below grade level. If asked to write about something he likes or about a book that he read he will write one simple sentence. He understands the rules of punctuation and capitalization, but he does not apply them when he writes. He spells much better orally than he does when writing (he is able to beat adults at Quiddler correctly spelling words like rye and aqua, but when writing his spelling is very phonetic and looks typical for his age). His writing is slow, but neat. Recently he has even begun to complain about having to write longer problems in math as well whereas before he seemed perfectly content to write numbers and math related things just for fun.

I had tried in the past to get him evaluated by the district for some of my concerns over the years, but we are always told that he is ahead in reading/writing and they wouldn't evaluate. I feel like he's no longer ahead and I'm worried he is starting to fall behind. We really can't afford a private evaluation right now. I just made another request for an evaluation hoping that he is finally dropping far enough below his potential for it to look like an evaluation is a good idea.

I guess I'm just wondering if anyone knows what might be going on as well as any strategies that can be used to convince a school district to evaluate for disabilities when the child is at or above grade but well below where they maybe should be performing. If there is some sort of disability causing these problems I want find out sooner rather than later. Or maybe everything is just part of his ADHD and there's not a lot we can do about it? He is already medicated at near the max for his age and at a level high enough to help tremendously with behavior and a higher dose is really not something we are considering right now. The counselor at his school also mentioned anxiety/OCD issues (which we've also seen some of at home) and we may need to look into that at some point and consider additional meds if things get worse (my threshold for trying meds is whether he can or can't attend school without them, right now he can, but barely).

So right now I'm just info gathering and bugging the district again. Google searches haven't been particularly useful and every LD I read about doesn't seem to fully apply, he will tick some of the boxes, but some items will be entirely untrue for him. Of course it doesn't help that all of these checklists are designed for children in the average range of intellectual functioning. I wish they would give different lists for different ability levels. I'm sure most of the LD's look pretty different in kids with well below average IQ as well. OTOH, there probably isn't any real research on exceptional kids at either end and how LD's present in those groups. Maybe one of our kids will grow up and go into psych research and fix this?

Another thing to consider is that he is just very asynchronous? Some gifted kids are like this. They learn some things very very fast & easy and others closer to normal for grade level. Particularly on the social & emotional. They might not find older chapter books particularly interesting.

As for the reading. My DS17 learned to read very early, he taught himself around 3. But very much resisted reading longer chapter books till 3rd grade. He spend a lot of time in 1st & 2nd reading non-fiction, books about animals. Books about science, there are tons of age appropriate books that don't need to be read front to back.

He reads fiction now for fun. (When he has time, he is a H.S. senior who like most is super super busy.) He did eventually start reading and enjoying fiction just not at your son's age.

But do trust your gut, if you really feel this is an LD you might need to find a private neurotic who knows how to evaluate gifted kids. (I know that isn't easy.) And then to bring that evaluation to the school. I know that can be hard if you can't afford it.

Turns out both my kids have language processing issues of different types. My older D (not gifted) struggled just to learn to read. She could parse words, but had a very hard time to understand. What I found was she would just skip over the little words & completely lose the meaning.

My S17 eventually was diagnosed with low processing & low working memory issues, and anxiety. These often go together. This might very well be what's going on with your son. It's certainly something to look into.

P.S. You also talk about all those medications for ADHD your son is on. Have a good talk with the prescribing psychiatrist because it could be a side effect of the med. And if your son is only being treated by a regular MD, you need to find him a specialist.

Actually, neurotics are fairly easy to find. A neuropsych will be harder, but may be necessary.

SaturnFan have you requested for a district evaluation in writing? Has the district responded in writing?

I have requested evals by email. At the current district I asked earlier in the year and was told there was no need and I didn't really pursue past that. I emailed again about 2 weeks ago and answered some questions they had and then was told that I would be contacted by a person whose contact info I was not given and I have been waiting a week now and so far nothing.

At the old district we had an IEP and I was familiar with how to get IEP meetings set up and the timeline for them, but as far as getting evaluations and testing done I have never been very successful. I'm certainly not sure where I'm at as far as the law goes and even less certain because we are using a private school. I'm also less certain because DS is technically not behind in any of the areas of concern.

We are currently in the process of selling our second car to pay for some stuff we need to do to our new house, so we may have enough money for a neurotic, er neuropsych depending on cost. How much do they typically cost?

It varies a lot depending on who you choose, whether they take insurance, and what they need to test. Assuming it's not covered by your health insurance, it's likely to be a few thousand dollars (more than one and less than five, in my experience). But do see if there's a way to get it covered by health insurance - my kids' last workups cost me $50 each, the copays for two office visits.

I can help you start at district expense. Send in the request by email and CMRR again. Being at grade level is not the criteria, but "educational benefit" is. Do you have anything that shows your concern? My 3ds are all at private, but it does not matter... the district still needs to evaluate in all areas of suspected disability. Think comments on reports cards, tests, etc? Has he slipped on any areas of the private school's administered standardized testing?

This past summer my district tried to declassify one of my ds because of his good report card. I filed a complaint and ds has had district psychoeducational, OT and AT evals. The district just approved a trial macbook for DS. If you do not pay for private evaluations just realize that it will cost you in time and energy. You must expect the District to tell you it is not indicated and/or ignore you. For instance, I suspect that DS has an auditory processing disorder, because CELF 4 Concepts and Following Directions subtest scoring of 16% and PSI of 18% plus teachers are noticing difficulty in sequencing and they still told me it was not indicated so I went back and asked again. Why do you think it is not indicated? Under what circumstances do you think an APD evaluation is needed? I am waiting to hear.

Good luck!

My sons both got psychoeducational evaluations done on a sliding scale at the local university. (Not neuropsychological). One got A further discount by participating in a research study (basically in all the parent forms we had to do several were questionnaires not really needed for the evaluation but were part of the study, they had to do with parenting styles and giftedness).

I will definately look into our options if the district doesn't pan out. You guys really gave me some good ideas of where to look. There is no way we can afford to pay this out of pocket at those prices, our car is only worth 4k tops and that has to go to other expenses first! It's been 2 weeks now since I was told I would be contacted by a someone from the district and I have heard nothing. I just emailed to ask how long I have to wait to be contacted. This is not a good sign that they want to work with me. I'm guessing the goal is to put me off for the rest of the school year and start it all over again next year (and hey, maybe the issue will disappear by then anyway!) The next email I write will be less nice. I'll give them until Friday. But just wanted to thank everyone for the helpful advice and ideas. I'll give the school a few more weeks and then look into other ideas. Thanks.

SaturnFan- contact with the district should have no emotion and be polite. If you are "less nice" in your emails that will give the district an excuse to dig in their heels.

Did you write an email that you would like the district to write evaluations in certain areas? Did you include the reasons you suspect the weaknesses? Go to wrightslaw and read parent's success stories. Read what mistakes parents realized they made upon reflection. I understand... I do not have the finances for these evaluations either, most parents do not. I drive a 20+ year old Honda. My high school ds has hit the wall at his elite private high school and his full financial aid package is at risk. This is a process with timelines, a lot of rules and regulations. Please breathe and read other's parents experiences.

I should clarify that by less nice I mean quoting laws and bringing up timelines. Just not sure if there are laws and timelines for evaluations of this sort vs. IEPs where there are very clear rules for how long they have to respond and do certain things. At the old district I often had to resort to listing the dates that I made requests to show them that they were behind or about to be behind where they should be by law. I am always polite and respectful with them because I know I will have to see them face to face at meetings as well as hopefully get the best help that I can from them. It just often seems that I have to remind them of the laws to get things moving

On a positive note, after I emailed today I got a call shortly after from the person who I was waiting to hear from and she is sending some stuff. By snail mail. I would have preferred an email address to leave a digital trail and I actually have no idea what is being sent, but at least something is happening. And apparently she could not send the forms until she confirmed which of my son's names was his first and which was his last name. Seriously, that was the hold up. I did write his name out for them in 2 emails, but I guess I should have labeled first and last, lol.

As far as what I said to them in the first email, it was this:

Hi, I would like to request an evaluation and IEP meeting for my son who attends a private school. He is diagnosed with autism, ADHD, and Tourette's and I am also concerned about his reading and writing. His last IEP was done over a year ago at our old school district in (Blank) County. Please let me know what further steps, if any, we need to take to get this process going. Thanks.

After that I answered a bunch of questions about DS, but they didn't ask for any specifics about why I wanted him evaluated as she said the other lady would talk to me about that. Maybe the stuff they are mailing will ask for that information?

I should get DS's MAP scores on Friday and it will be the first time I get reading scores, so I'm very interested to see what they are. The private school is definitely having trouble with DS not wanting to write and not producing writing at an appropriate level for the classroom, so I can get statements of concern from them no problem. There is no way I can show any below grade level performance. Even on writing he is probably low for grade, but still within the normal range. I don't want to wait for him to fail and then test and remediate. Maybe he is fine, but I am worried and I have learned to trust that feeling over the years.

I should also mention that although I list that DS is diagnosed with Autism, we do not consider it a valid diagnosis at this time and are working to get it removed. DS has very severe ADHD that, when unmedicated, looks a lot like autism. It's actually amazingly difficult to find anyone who accepts our insurance and who will reevaluate for autism... I've been at it for 2 years. Until we get it removed I will continue to list it, just in case it is accurate and also because it has a greater impact than his other diagnoses. It feels a little like lying, but an autism diagnosis does make getting an OT eval much easier for instance. I will of course tell them that the autism is uncertain at this point, but I really wish we could get that reeval!

Thanks for all of the help so far. I'll continue to update.

Yes. The district has strict state and federally-mandated timelines for responding to your request for an initial evaluation, and then for proceeding with the steps to conduct an evaluation, even though your child is enrolled in private school. Child find makes them responsible for every school-age resident of their catchment area. In most states, they have 5-10 school days to respond to your request for an initial evaluation, generally with a request for more information (your concerns), a permission to test, or a refusal to act. But they have to do something. And yes, it has to be on paper.

It sounds like they are within the timelines for responding to you. Once you receive a permission to test (it may have different names, depending on your state, but it will clearly indicate that the district is proposing assessments of your child, should name the areas in which they will assess (e.g., psychological/cognitive, academic achievement, attention/behavior/executive function, social-emotional development), and may even give the names of the assessment instruments), determine if you agree with the assessments, and request, if need be, any additional assessments (e.g., occupational therapy, speech and language, adaptive physical education). For an initial eval, academic achievement is usually comprehensive, but in some cases, you will have to specify assessment in all areas of academics, including reading, writing, and mathematics).

Once you are comfortable that the evaluation will cover the areas of need, sign and return it promptly, as the timeline for completing the testing and holding the eligibility meeting doesn't begin until they receive your signed consent to test. At that point, the district will have anywhere between 30 calendar days and 60 school days to complete the evaluation, depending on the state (check your state's department of ed, special education due process timelines for this info). And then may have an additional 10-30 days to hold the meeting. States may have any combination of, an evaluation review meeting, an eligibility meeting, and an IEP development meeting. Some roll them all into a single meeting, while others split them out, each with their additional time line.

Update:

I heard back from the district after quite a bit of silence and they wanted to get started right away on evaluations. We started today in his school and tomorrow we go in for I guess formal evaluations at the district. I am not actually at all sure what all they are evaluating for, so hopefully I will find out more tomorrow. I am very happy with how quickly things have gone since we fell on their radar. The people I have spoken to so far have also been very friendly and the counselor at our private school says we are in an excellent district for special ed. All good!

I had actually posted in another thread earlier in the month wondering if I should even go through with this due to finally getting those MAP results back and finding out that DS scored in the 99th %ile on the reading portion. His lexile is listed at 627-777. I do not feel that he is actually reading at that level though. I was expecting him to do above average but I was very surprised he tested more at a third grade (I think?) level. I guess the eval won't hurt, but I'm feeling really silly about having concerns now, especially since the writing and language section was his highest scoring category :P

I do wonder if his score would be as good if he were to take the 2-5 version of the test. In math he took to primary in summer and then switched to the 2-5 and dropped from 237 to 217, but climbed back up to 230 this winter. If he were to drop a few points on the reading section it would make a much bigger difference because he only got a 207.

Anyway, just wanted to thank everyone for their help and let you all know that we are getting our district eval and so far things are looking good with it. And I'm also feeling a bit ridiculous at this point with the 99th %ile score on what I thought was a weak area. OTOH maybe the district will test fluency, which is my biggest area of concern right now, along with written expression. I will update again at the end of this process to let you guys know if we figure anything out. Thanks!

Trust your instincts. If something feels odd, too hard *for this kid* regardless of measured grade level, there may well be something there. (The challenge, of course, is convincing the school you're not crazy.).

The thing with kids who are 2E is that they can be simultaneously - and visibly - way ahead on some tasks while underlying processing skills are lagging behind. It's not until the complexity of the task gets high enough to overwhelm the other strengths and compensation mechanisms that you realize the child is missing a key skill. For instance, throughout K my DD was one of the two strongest "readers" and "writers" in her class - but two years later, she was still at the same level while her classmates had automated those skills and moved onto more complex materials.

Long way of saying, trust your gut if something feels too hard, and don't let them convince you to wait until the child is failing - because for a 2E child, that can be a long, long way down and a hard climb back out that hole. Really, really trust yourself. You are the one spending all that one-on-one time with the kid, and lots of research agrees that you really do know better than the experts when a child is off-norm in some way.

Well, after 3 days and many hours of testing (which still isn't complete, seems DS is getting too many questions right) I learned that they are actually doing IQ testing. I hadn't even realized they were doing the WISC until the second day of testing and was really surprised because at the last district I had to fight so hard for IQ testing and they didn't do more than the bare minimum anyway. This lady even did the optional subtests. I'm not sure I wanted another test done and if we had decided to retest I would have preferred to wait until 8, but I guess I can't complain too much. I do wish they had discussed it with me first, I thought we were just testing reading, writing, and comprehension, my areas of concern (turns out we are not going to be testing any of them).

I was able to talk to the psych about her impressions so far. She said she can't tell yet if his score will be in the gifted range, but she kept telling me he was going to the end on the various sections, which I would think would give some idea of whether he will meet the cutoff or not. And when I specifically asked if she thought he would qualify for the gifted program, she said that it's not just based on IQ and listed a bunch of stuff including leadership skills, social/emotional skills, creative output, and also academic levels (flashback to last horrible school experience). I mentioned that I had provided his MAP scores which put him in the 99th %ile and she asked me if that was by district norms and I said no, national norms (DS is private school, so there are no %iles on the report, I looked them up online). She said that this is a high performing district and he may not qualify academically with his scores.

She then let me know that there was no way they would find a disability of any sort and they aren't even going to test for any. She said he would have to be significantly behind on reading or writing to even consider assessment/disability and he is significantly ahead on everything. She also said that they can only test him on grade level material, so if fluency is fine on 1st grade text then there is no disability, even if fluency is poor on more cognitively appropriate text. So now I'm feeling pretty bad about putting DS through all of this testing and having him miss 2 days of school because it seems the the only thing that might come of this is possible qualification for the district gifted program in case we can't afford private next year. And even that seems iffy because if you apply a bunch of extra criteria, especially things like creative output, DS isn't looking so good (although his art teacher tells me he is extremely gifted in art... which is hard for me to believe!) Plus the tester doesn't even seem confident DS will come up as gifted on the WISC despite saying he has done amazingly well on the test and mentioning a few times he did all of the items available on certain subtests.

So, am I out of options? Should I save up and pursue private testing? Should I fight the district if they deny DS from gifted programming based on emotional immaturity or lack of creative output? If he were not allowed into the gifted program there is no way he could go to public school. After a year at the private gifted school DS has further widened the gap between himself and agemates and I can't see him being happy at all in a typical classroom. He actually already complains his current school moves too slow and the math is too easy. Plus some of his favorite classes are Mandarin, Projects, and Coding, none of which will be offered at that public school. I guess I have to really hope for a good result with our financial aid application

Wait and see until the results come back. What matters is the discrepancy of cognitive ability and achievement, not if DS is on grade-level or not. This is a process. One step at a time.

I would agree that waiting would be prudent. As someone who's been on the other side of the table, I can give some perspective. Especially in high-performing districts, one frequently hears from parents asking for previews of testing results for gifted eligibility, sometimes so they can lean on the process when their kids don't qualify. ("The tester told me he did exceptionally well on the test, so you have to admit him.") Examiners are almost always cautioned (or learn from bitter experience) not to indicate one way or the other until the whole selection process is complete, to limit attempts by parents to game/pressure the system. She might think privately that he's a shoo-in, but if she's wise, she won't say anything about it to you. Hence the party line about multiple sources of assessment data (probably a state requirement, btw). You can't make any inferences about his eligibility for GT programming based on what she says to you.

With regard to the 2e aspect of the evaluation, you have a right to request an independent educational evaluation (or the district can offer additional testing) if you are not satisfied with the results of the evaluation. So no, the process is not over. Also, the prior written notice for the evaluation should have included a list or description of the types of assessments to be conducted. If it did not, then there are due process violations. You may wish to check your paperwork to be sure.

Unfortunately I signed and turned in the permission to evaluate and never made a copy of it. As far as I can recall it was just a generic permission slip with nothing specific written on it (no specific tests listed/no areas of concern). They had sent out this huge packet with about 7 different rating scales for me to fill out and I never thought to copy any of the material. I suppose I could ask to look at it, but then I would have to confront them on the spot, in person, and I am not prepared for that. I suppose I will keep it in my back pocket in case I need any legal leverage.

While I was there the last time they gave me an additional thing to fill out about the gifted characteristics of DS. I particularly disliked this form as it is something they actually use for admission to the gifted program and I think the vast majority of it doesn't even relate to giftedness, especially in 2E kids. It asks about imaginary friends (DS never had one, let alone multiple complex ones), early talking (DS did talk early, but many gifted kids don't), early reading (ditto), high empathy (not likely to be present in young kids with ASD), creative output, artistic talent, etc. I filled it out because I had to, but I will not be happy if my honesty keeps DS out of the gifted program. Plus I am not one to want anything to do with "selling" my DS. I hardly see how his early motor skills relate to his current academic needs regardless.

I am very happy to hear that the testers reticence may just be standard procedure. I have been worried that if he scores too low on the IQ test our current placement at the private gifted school may be at risk as well. His school doesn't have an official cutoff, but they exist to serve the gifted kids who are at DYS level. I was so surprised we got in, but it turns out they used the abbreviated IQ from the SB5 as well as considering DS's strong math and visual spatial skills. Plus apparently DS killed it in the interview (hard to believe!)

Since I told the school we were doing testing with the district to address the reading and writing concerns I'm pretty much going to have to share the results with them. But now that I know that the behavior of the tester could just be standard school protection stuff and not a reflection on how DS did I am going to sleep better while waiting for the results to come in.

I'm also happy to know we have more options with the LD testing. It does concern me though that for fluency and comprehension she can only test him with first grade text. DS was reading at a first grade level in preschool, so obviously fluency concerns won't show up at that level. And since his comprehension deficits are mostly with inference and not fact recall, first grade text won't show much there either. Plus with him reading at about a second grade level without any real progress for about 2 years I worry that he will just fall further and further behind. I'm wondering if they are thinking his skills are just "evening out" in preparation for that big third grade reset?

At any rate, thanks so much for helping with the wait. I am the sort who will worry no matter what, but I can drop it down a notch now as I now have a new and more positive plausible explanation. Thanks

When a parent requests the independent educational evaluation the parent gets to choose the evaluator within reason. The IEE is often a neuropsych. Don't worry about which subtests they used, because your son will have the ones he needs by the end of the process.

Just a heads up the results are part of your sons educational record and you are entitled to them when they are ready. My district loves to say that they will give them to me at the IEP meeting so they can explain them to me. That's just not happening.

Inference is a lot to ask for a 6 year old. I was panicky when my son was 7-8 because he could not infer. It was limiting him in science (6th grade textbook). He is 9 now, something "clicked" developmentally and he can infer. AP Biology and reading at college level.

My son also has ADHD and struggles with writing, which turned out to be more about what he was being asked to write. At 6 years old / 1st grade he was obviously lagging behind age peers in writing. Turned out that writing assignments were too long and too... boring. I taught him grammar, vocabulary, spelling and handwriting all separately and away from writing. I used a lot of rote memorization - which seems to reduce demand on working memory. He didn't write for 2 years during this process. He read freely. Then I taught writing forms with rote memorization of outlines for persuasive and compare/contrast essays - enough to get him through most short answer questions in science. He took another semester off from writing and then started using "UnJournaling" book, which he LOVED.

Now he is doing poetry, which he is surprisingly good at. Closed and open couplets and haiku are short enough they're not overwhelming to him. He finally has motivation to learn to write short answer essays - he wants to take AP tests. His writing is well above what one would expect for his age now, although it's still a significant lag behind everything else.

Perhaps some of these ideas will help you with your son. Maybe not! I mostly wrote it all out to illustrate that kids have developmental plateaus and grow by "leaps and bounds".... and plateaus in between sometimes.

(tangent: my son could NOT count backward or subtract at 6-7 years old. It was crazy. I taught him multiplication instead of subtraction. One day, something "clicked" developmentally and he could count backwards, subtract - and divide! all at the same time. After that he started accelerating like crazy in math! 9 years old, he's doing Algebra 2. Insanity!)

My son's reading (inference) weakness never turned up on a reading comprehension test, it only came out in writing. I felt anxious like I was taking a HUGE risk with his future when I decided to teach him round-about ways. My anxiety was unfounded. I'm guessing yours is too. You know your child best. Don't worry! You're doing everything you can! You're being a fantastic advocate for him! He has the perfect momma for himself! ❤