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    Joined: May 2013
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    This is what is happening with our district in terms of Rti. They have an outside consulting group that they are paying thousands of dollars to (the District Management Council which works nationwide and is in most states) telling them to shift money from special education to RtI. If they had actually set up a DECENT RtI system this wouldn't be so horrible but our district does not have a referral process, they don't have a system of tiered interventions other than what they are getting free like free tutors from the State, Title 1, etc. And basically any services they offer are focused on reading interventions. If your problem is something completely different like math or writing or behavior, or organizational skills, then kids in our district can forget about getting hep. So one of my kids was delayed an eval while they pursued having him use a pencil grip in kindergarten. I kid you not. If I complained about how I had concerns I would either be blown off or the teacher would ask the OT what to do about my son, who would come in, observe him for a few minutes and then give him something like a pencil grip and declare the situation resolved. They completely disregarded outside evaluations that we had. The school didn't actually do anything until I called Compliance with the State and the school knew the State was getting involved and I was on the verge of filing a formal complaint.
    I told the special ed director that my daughter also needed to be evaluated once she started in the gifted program at a different school, and that if they stonewalled me the way they did with my son, it wasn't going to be pretty. That's exactly what ended up happening. With her, I was worried about her written expression, in that she was in 4th grade and couldn't do any sort of story or journal entry or assignment of any kind and write any more than 2-3 sentences. I brought my concerns to the school, stated the need for an eval, and was told "we can't evaluate unless we do several interventions first." I then proceeded to send them the info about RtI and how they can't use interventions to delay an eval, esp. if the parent makes a request. They had no plan about WHAT interventions and there was no discussion or meeting. I asked specifically what interventions, and they had no idea because they don't actually have any sort of RtI system for written expression, yet they are denying kids evals. I believe they would have let months or years go by claiming they are doing interventions, yet actually not doing anything. When they DID finally evaluate her they found exactly what I was telling them. That she would not write more than a couple sentences. But they denied services because she did not have failing grades and her math and reading standardized test scores were so good (yeah, puzzle that one out). We were told it would be useless to write an IEP and she would be pulled out with 5 other kids so what would be the point. We ultimately ended up taking her out, it was such a bad situation and we would have obviously been spinning our wheels indefinitely trying to get services that didn't actually exist and that the school didn't know how to do anyway. Basically what is happening is that districts are using a fake RtI system in order to get out of following the Child Find mandate.

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    Blackcat - I understand your frustration with RTI. And I am so sorry for all you went through your kids. My son told me the OT gave him a pom-pom to hold to help with his grip. He did say it helped, but a pom-pom? It's like your pencil grip scenario. It's not going to fix his challenges.

    How did they find issues with your daughter and deny her services? Did you pull her from the gifted school or out of school entirely?

    The RTI section of our district's website is completely confusing. I do not think they have any genuine RTI process. And when I brushed up against the ill-defined not-quite (or as you said, "fake") RTI program with my daughter, I did a lot of research on RTI. In principle, I think RTI has so much merit.

    My daughter ended up in fake RTI when her reading scores dropped--right at the time when her speech issues surfaced. Yes, she had been reading well above grade level before that. Of course, I hadn't seen her scores--so was surprised when she told me she was leaving the class for reading. When I asked the school about it, they told the curriculum they were using. I looked it up and found out is a recommended Tier II RTI curriculum.

    And then I was baffled about how a student who had always read above grade-level was suddenly in Tier II RTI? What happened to Tier I RTI? Is it RTI? Yes, no. Depends on who you asked. I pulled her--and her scores were just fine on the next round of testing (all computer-based and just a few weeks after the one that caused the problem).

    Another reason we wanted to hold on speech therapy a year ago was the fake RTI experience. She was so upset at being pulled from class for reading that the idea of being pulled for speech was not comfortable to her.

    But that's an aside to the journey with my son. I feel like everyday is some kind of new hope and another wall to smack into. I am so glad to know I'm not alone.

    Joined: Aug 2015
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    Lissadell- If you can't find your copy of the consent form then ask the district for a copy. They have to give you access to your child's district records.

    It's really important to filter out the background noise. I am helping a friend and her district is finally evaluating her DD. District planned to give evaluation results at IEP meeting, claiming they want to avoid confusion and to clearly explain the results. Sorry District that is not happening.


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    To answer your question about my dd's writing...I had no idea she was so impaired until the end of 3rd grade when her notebooks came home and I realized that she hardly wrote in them and nothing was corrected or graded either. I had asked the teachers how she was doing in writing, because I suspected there may be issues and was told she was fine. Almost no work comes home til the end of the year, and I was appalled by what I saw. Also, a long-term sub came in at the end of third grade and started sending me emails about how off-task my daughter was, whereas the regular classroom teacher just shrugged off concerns and acted like it wasn't that bad. I strongly believe that the teachers are actually told to quit referring students, or only do it unless they have to, so basically there was no communication about how impaired she was. By the time I figured it out, we had already made the decision to send her to the self-contained program at a different school in the district for highly gifted kids (basically kids who are in the 98th percentile or above for math, reading, and cognitive ability). I talked to one of the teachers before we enrolled and informed them that my daughter had some writing issues and was told that it would be fine, that they "have a lot of kids like that." So we enrolled her and went in and volunteered once or twice a month and watched her. She really wasn't doing any work, she was completely spaced out. At the same time I had put in the request to have her focus and writing assessed. When they evaluated her they only looked at one work sample and it was two sentences, exactly what I feared. But they just kind of blew it off and the teachers were told that she was not going to qualify and they would need to do the interventions (the fake interventions). The teachers started acting like everything was great and were actually inflating her grades so that I would quit asking what they were doing for her. That was when I realized it was never going to work out and we took her out and transferred to a different district (we have open enrollment in our state). The new school wrote an IEP and put her in the "Other Health Disability" category because she had an ADHD diagnosis. She probably also could have qualified as "Specific learning disability--written expression" but the school didn't seem to like that idea because her achievement testing for writing was in the average range, except for the TOWL which was done by an outside evaluator, where she couldn't even write the minimum amount of words needed for the open ended story. The school had given her the WIAT and she scored in the average range because she was able to use cognitive ability to compensate on most of it. Her problem is extended writing ability, not putting together single sentences, or spelling. But the schools compute a composite, they don't look at a single deficit (even though not being able to write more than two or three sentences is a pretty major deficit!) But only a small part of the written expression tests look at that ability. A student could bomb that section but if their scores in other areas are average or above, their whole score is likely to be average. Anyway, the problem with her writing was determined by the outside neuropsych to stem for an executive functioning deficit. She could not plan, organize or initiate the extended writing, and to make it worse would become agitated, so just sat there and did nothing.

    The new district did end up identifying her as gifted and accelerated her for math as well. She is now in middle school and gifted kids are clustered together, with everyone in the core classes being at around the same level. So it's really no different than the special program that we had pulled her from in terms of what she is receiving (it's better actually, because even besides the IEP, the gifted program is much more organized! She even has a "gifted case manager" who talks to her every week). Fourth grade was a complete nightmare, but in the end it turned out to a good thing because we got her out of the toxic district we live in and into a better one.

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    EmmaL - I will definitely get a copy of the consent form. I checked the paperwork for my daughter and don't have hers either. Very curious.

    I am glad you are advising your friend. I'm new to all this, but it seems odd for schools to expect parents review and sign major legal documents on the spot. I am now kicking myself for being so trusting at the last round of meetings. I am definitely not signing anything until I feel it's accurate accurate and I agree with the content!

    blackcat - thanks for sharing your daughter's journey. It helps me put my son's situation in context. Of course, I don't know he has a disorder of written expression, but there are parallels.

    I'm glad your daughter's school is working for her. I was in gifted programming starting in middle school (not in elementary)--and I don't think I missed much. In middle and high school it was a big help to be with other motivated students. By high school, the kids who had been at the gifted center program were back in the "regular" gifted program with the rest of us. Really no differences that I saw.

    I am so glad you mentioned TOWL. I was trying to figure out if there is a test to gauge his written expression level. I bet it's below grade level.

    The case manager sounds awesome! I am so glad it worked out for her.


    Of course, I heard that the director that oversees special education said he would have to do the same gifted portfolio project as everyone else in the nebulous not-approved-not-denied category because he doesn't have an IEP. It does make sense. But I'm trying to understand if he can use the "interventions" he can use in class for the project. It seems logical that he could.

    The parent advocate who advised me suggested exploring a 504 plan vs. an IEP. It may make sense.

    A friend of mine went through so many hurdles getting one for her child despite having a recommendation and diagnosis from a pediatric specialist. I can't even find reference to 504 plans our district website.


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    The difference between 504's and IEPs is that with an IEP, the child gets services. So in my daughter's case, instead of going to Spanish, she goes to a small group with a special ed teacher and that's where she gets assistance with her work, completes things that she didn't complete in class, and help with organizational skills. If the problem is purely handwriting, I think it would be reasonable to look at a 504 if you want him to be able to keyboard or have some sort of assistive technology. But if you want his handwriting actually remediated, he would need an IEP and either a special ed teacher or an occupational therapist would work on the issue. The problem is figuring out what category he can qualify in. Because he probably needs to either qualify as having disorder of written expression (which is more than just handwriting), or you would need some other sort of diagnosis, like in my daughter's case it is ADHD, in my son's case it is Developmental Coordination Disorder (although in his case I think it's actually more than that, I think he has a brain injury or malformation, we just have't been able to get an accurate diagnosis yet).

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    An IEP might be needed even without services. Wrightslaw has a couple of articles on 504s and IEPs.

    Last edited by EmmaL; 12/22/16 05:20 PM.
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    Technically, IEPs always involve services, but it is true that those services do not have to be in a pull-out setting. The key difference between 504s and IEPs is the presence/absence of specialized instruction, which entails changes in at least one of curriculum standards, performance criteria, or instructional methodology.

    Depending on the nature of the need and the corresponding specialized instruction, some are more appropriately serviced in the inclusive general education setting, with special education support in the regular classroom, others require pull-out, and some are actually best implemented through consultation by specialists with general educators, providing them with additional strategies for supporting the student (e.g., tips on modifying tests, providing alternate assignments, targeting certain learning standards over others, reinforcing use of AT skills).


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    Thanks for breaking that down aeh!

    I stumbled on Strategies for Assistive Technology Negotiations recently. While not a new article, it certainly helped me strengthen my AT advocacy.

    Last edited by EmmaL; 12/22/16 06:38 PM.
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