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    Joined: Dec 2016
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    Hello everyone,

    New here and looking for 2e advice from this wise community. I suspect my 11yo son may have issues with his handwriting (potentially dysgraphia). We have an open "child study" through the school. The district's occupational therapist is performing an initial observation as a next step.

    He also just scored within the parameters for gifted programming at his school--but was declined services.

    Actually, they are putting him on a "watchlist" and want him to do a "portfolio project." The reason? His OLSAT subtest scores didn't line up with his content-specific achievement test scores (SOLs and others).

    The school district's gifted program is very new (about a year old). They have just started formally assessing all third-graders--but he is in fifth grade. I had to do a parent referral for gifted screening.

    The school district identifies gifted students only in the specific content areas of reading and math. He scored a 97 on the OLSAT verbal subtest, but has been a consistent on-grade level "B" student in literacy (until this year, when he went up a full grade level and is getting A's). And he passed the reading SOLs, but his scores weren't great.

    His OLSAT nonverbal score was 81, but his math SOL was "advanced." And he had a perfect score on his history SOL (my son = history nerd).

    FYI, the system's OLSAT cutoff for further evaluation is 90 for each subtest. From what I understand, they view the OLSAT as a first step and are trying to "cast a wide net."

    The gifted specialist called me yesterday to tell me about the identification committee meeting. She started out saying that they liked to see the achievement scores line up with the OLSAT scores and came to the conclusion that he was being effectively served in the regular classroom.

    I told her about the "child study" process--and she said it was mentioned in passing, but not discussed by the committee. After some discussion, she said they viewed my son as an "enigma" and wanted "more data"--hence the "portfolio project" concept.

    I originally said "OK" to the "portfolio" idea, but sent her an email with a bunch of questions today. I need more information to figure out if that is the right path for him, right now.

    I could also appeal the decision. I don't think I could engage any outside testing before an appeal meeting (maybe). I do think there may be enough that comes out of our next child study review meeting (January 4) that explains the gap in achievement vs. aptitude scores.

    And I am getting the sense that there is no specific 2e policy or expertise within the district. Actually, I asked the gifted specialist that specifically today.

    On a frustrating (somewhat) side note: the administrator who chaired the child study was part of the gifted identification committee. And I had requested the child study months ago, but there was an internal miscommunication about process (due to a complete change of administration at the school this year) and the school dropped the ball.

    I will add that in the initial child study meeting, the OT had reviewed his work samples and noticed some handwriting problems. She recommended he use adaptive paper with wider lines and yellow highlights. She also noted that when he has to fill in a blank space on a worksheet that "he doesn't know what to do with it." Her plan was to review more work samples and observe his writing process and come back with more specific recommendations in January.

    The message I came away with was: "we don't know what to do here." And there seemed to be no understanding that the score discrepancy could be indicative of a 2e issue.

    So, there's more I could say. I'm not sure quite where to go from here. I am sure I have some specific questions, but would welcome any thoughts or questions.

    Thanks in advance to all who read and share perspectives.

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    I guess I don't understand what SOL's are. Our district uses MAP for reading and math (it is computerized and tests above grade level) and then the CogAT rather than OLSAT. If his non-verbal OLSAT was 81 is that meeting their criteria above 90?

    If he is being evaluated by the school you can ask if they are planning to do an intelligence test like the WISC V. Usually schools are required to assess cognitive ability if they are doing a comprehensive evaluation. That would also give them a better idea of what is going on with him in terms of needing gifted programming.

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    Spaghetti -- Thank you. You definitely seem to sense the personality of the school district. They are somewhat "casual" in their approach in some ways. Their communications about both RTI and gifted are subpar.

    Blackcat - Thanks for your perspective. I will definitely ask if there are other testing options within the school district. As far as I know, the school system only uses OLSAT + a review of achievement testing, grades, and teacher/parent input for gifted identification. My understanding is that school systems in our state are required to have gifted programming--but how they screen and identify is at their discretion. They can provide services for general intellectual capability, specific content areas, or visual/performing arts--or all of the above.

    In our district, the only gifted services are for the specific content areas of reading and math. To qualify here, they look at the OLSAT subtest scores vs. the combined score. So, a student can qualify for further assessment in reading, based on the verbal score, or math, based on the non-verbal score. If either score are over 90, they collect more data and have a review by the gifted committee.

    Part of the "confusion" about DS is that he tested "gifted" for verbal, but has always been a stronger math student. He didn't qualify for math based on the OLSAT non-verbal score. I got the sense from the gifted specialist that they wouldn't have had an issue accepting him if he scored higher on the OLSAT non-verbal because his math performance supports identification.

    SOL is "standards of learning"--it's a state-wide test here that assess content knowledge in core subjects for each grade level. I know they have done MAP testing here, but not sure if they use it for his grade level. They also use PALS for literacy and a new test called iReady for math. I know his reading comprehension is 8th grade, but he tests at a 6th grade instructional level because his spelling scores are lower (based on PALS). iReady is new to me, but it is computer-based and adapts to ability. He just took it and said he was doing algebra problems.

    ***

    Here's some more information on the process thus far. Questions at the end. I know this is long. And I appreciate the opportunity to articulate what's going on and any feedback.

    I did request in writing that my son be assessed--specifically for dysgraphia--in August, before school started. The principal, vice principal, and school counselor are all new--and the assessment request process changed with the new personnel from last year. I made the request following the prior year process, so started with the wrong person. The request got referred to the right person and I was told that person would follow up. But it never happened. I followed up and got an apology for the misstep.

    Based on that, the timeline started in August. And I do have my email with my request and a school representative's response in writing about who would follow up and when.

    The gifted screening was in early November. The "child study"--which is the school system's term for special education assessment--was a few weeks later.

    The child study included the asst. principal, psychologist, special ed teacher, classroom teacher, and me. I had written a very thorough outline of issues I saw with his writing and brought several samples. The OT had gotten samples of his writing from teachers. She agreed with my observations--and had additional perspective.

    There was a general consensus of "we need to do something to help this kid" (direct quote from the meeting). And the OT suggested the adaptive paper. She also suggested he shouldn't be tasked to write in big open spaces because he writes all over the place.

    Of course, it's early in the process, so none of us know what his issues are. I brought the OLSAT report--which clearly showed his issues aren't intellectual. He is now performing above grade level in every subject. The psychologist said "well maybe he's just lazy" with his handwriting.

    The next step was for the OT to look at more samples. I know she has collected some from him that he has written on the adaptive paper (it does help, but his work is still riddled with issues). And she was going to observe his writing process to try to understand whether his challenges are fine motor or visual-spatial.

    I definitely got the sense that the OT felt that there were some concerns--but she can't do much for him with out more observation. I do think she'll come back at the next meeting on January 4th with more specific insight that will lead to further assessment and more adaptations for him.

    I am unhappy that the school system "dropped the ball" on the assessment earlier in the year--because I do think it negatively impacted the gifted committee's decision.

    I also feel that the gifted committee doesn't really "get" 2e. There are no specific 2e regulations for my state. There are guidelines that state that gifted committees should understand special education issues--and vice versa. Even though he's being assessed for a disability that directly impacts his area of giftedness--they couldn't view the aptitude and achievement mismatch as a sign of potential disability.

    Realistically, I would think the gifted committee could look at a case like my DS, see the mismatches in scores and performance...and proactively consider a disability issue. And have a specific process for that instead of deny or ask the student to do more work to prove him/herself. But it appears they don't.

    There's another issue that's concerning me at the moment. I have reviewed the only available gifted information for the district--which is the gifted plan for 2012-2015. The form for "denial of services" says parents have 10 calendar days to appeal after written notification. The state regulations say 10 instructional days.

    I have not yet received written notification. I have 10 instructional days to appeal. With winter break, that would give me until after the next child study review meeting.

    I may have to appeal. Of course, I have concerns about my son, but I have the broader concern that their gifted identification process and communication is subpar. If my son is at risk for falling through the cracks here, other kids could too.

    ****

    That's a lot of back story. And there's more, of course.

    We are in a very unknown space right now. I'm sure I'll have more specific questions, but here are some things on my mind right now.

    1. I do expect the OT will identify a need for more adaptations and/or assessment in January. Some of those adaptations could involve supplemental work at home or school (e.g., if he needs to focus on keyboarding or learn new software). And the gifted specialist proposed that she work with him on the "portfolio project." That feels like a lot of pressure and extra work to me. Any thoughts?

    2. Any perspective on appealing the decision? I would build a case around the school's assessment not being timely and the gifted committee's perceived (or demonstrated, maybe. I have requested a report from their review of my DS's case) lack of insight about 2e issues. I could potentially squeeze in an outside assessment (if they have no other testing options within the county). If so, what type of testing should I consider? WISC V? Others?

    3. Any perspective on the OLSAT non-verbal being used as an identifier of gifted abilities in math?

    One other thing...and it's a big one. My DS's dad passed away in a very traumatic way a few months ago. The school system is aware and has been very supportive. But, DS is super-sensitive right now and prone to emotional "meltdowns"--at home, not school. He gets really stressed about his current workload and struggles to keep up with his peers in writing tasks at school. That's one reason why I think working through adaptations + a portfolio project could lead to more overwhelm.

    So thanks once again. This is an interesting journey so far...and I know it's only beginning.



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    Welcome to the forums, Lissadell. I'm not familiar with either the OLSAT or SOLs so I can't help you with specifics, but I agree with spaghetti - it's best to start putting all of your requests for evaluation etc in writing. Email works a-ok for "writing" and collecting a "paper trail". I'd also summarize any conversations in writing. For instance, summarize the conversation you had with the gifted specialist, send the summary in an email back to her, stating that you want to verify that you understand what she told you, and asking her to let you know if you misunderstood anything she said.

    My other suggestion is - try to get a private evaluation. While some school districts are timely and helpful in evaluations for 2e students, others aren't and it appears from what you've described that you face a long uphill climb toward services in both e's. While a private evaluation doesn't guarantee school services, what it gives you can be extremely valuable: an understanding of your child's diagnosis, and a roadmap to remediation. It can also be a powerful tool when advocating both because it gives *you* an understanding of what's up and what to advocate *for*, and because you'll have a report from a professional who's made a diagnosis. When school personnel argue that there is no need for remediation or services etc, then you can fall back on the question "are you disagreeing with the opinion of a qualified professional?". This was *extremely* useful for us in advocating for our 2e dysgraphic ds.

    I'll also add - having the recommendations for a path forward from a professional who didn't have any stake in the outcome (i.e., who could recommend needed remediation but also had no loyalty or tie to the institution delivering the remediation) was extremely useful to me as a parent. If your ds is truly 2e, the first thing you need to focus on is understanding the e that's a challenge and helping find a way either through it or around it. Once you understand and have a plan in place to deal with it, chances are good you'll both understand and be able to explain his testing results to others, and, he'll also be able to truly show his knowledge, which will in turn help him receive gifted services.

    Hope that makes sense!

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    We have found the schools to be very challenging, sometimes it seems like mass dysfunction at every turn and it's almost impossible for parents to navigate the situation.

    I recommend doing some research on comprehensive evaluations for special education. What normally happens is that the school suggests an eval or the parent puts in a request. Then within a certain timeframe you are supposed to get a prior written notice stating what they are going to do for the evaluation. I think what this includes can vary but we got a list of specific tests that they were planning. Once the parent signs the plan the school has a certain time limit to finish the eval, you meet, and they go through the eval results and tell you whether or not he qualifies for an IEP or a 504 plan. In terms of this eval, they have to report on the child's cognitive ability. I am not sure whether they think the OLSAT is an acceptable test, but I think that's poor practice. In one district we were in they use the CogAT for special ed students, which is really not meant for the purpose of evaluating students with possible disabilities and they adamantly refused to do a real IQ test. In the district we are in now, we had CogAT results and they adamantly refused to even discuss them (even though they were high) in DS's latest IEP eval basically saying the results are meaningless in terms of assessing cognitive ability. They ended up using outside WISC results that we had from a neuropsych but if we hadn't had that, they would have given him the WISC. You may be able to google search evaluation manuals that come out from the Department of Ed for your state and see what kinds of testing they tell districts to do.

    Also, I think it would be a really good idea to pursue outside testing. We went to a neuropsych as well as getting private occupational therapy and physical therapy evals. The private OTs like to use tests like the Beery VMI, and the BOT to assess fine motor ability. The neuropsych gave DS a test called the Grooved Pegboard to assess manual dexterity as well as repeating the Beery VMI. With a combination of those types of tests you should be able to distinguish between a visual-motor issue vs. something else like manual dexterity (or a combination of the two). It sounds like the school OT is just kind of observing him which sounds like the wrong path to go down. The school should be doing actual testing.

    Schools will not diagnose dysgraphia. They might report specific results of testing but not actually give it a label. They may diagnose "Disorder of Written Expression" if there is a gap between his cognitive ability and written expression, but that would involve a test like the Woodcock Johnson or the WIAT or the TOWL.

    If it's purely a handwriting issue, I don't think he's going to qualify for any services unless you have an outside medical diagnosis which could put him in a category like "Other Health Disability" or "Physical Impairment" (my son's handwriting issue is stemming from Developmental Coordination Disorder).

    I'm wondering if what your district is doing is some sort of Response to Intervention rather than an actual comprehensive evaluation for special education. They might claim that they need to do this RtI before evaluating him but when a parent makes a request, they cannot use RtI to delay a comprehensive evaluation.
    http://www.wrightslaw.com/nltr/09/nl.1027.htm

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    Thanks again for the replies. They are all so helpful. I will take the time to respond to them individually soon.

    I ran into another issue with the process today and wanted some perspective.

    I hadn't shared any information about the call with the gifted specialist with my son. I mentioned the loss of his dad and his emotions. His dad's birthday would be this weekend. And the holidays are imminent. Telling him the committee's decision could wait.

    But my son came home today and told me he'd been thinking about his gifted test results. When I asked why, he said a fellow student in his reading class said "everyone failed the gifted test." I told him he knew he didn't fail the test and that it wasn't that student's concern. And I asked what else the student said. And he told me the other student said the gifted teacher told them that (everyone failed) in their last gifted session (which would have been yesterday, I think). Yes, the student who shared the news (with the entire class) is in the gifted program.

    I am not pleased. I feel like my son's rights to privacy of his educational records have been violated. I am not sure what was said in the gifted session. But if anything needed to be communicated, I know it could have been said in a way that didn't get brought back to the classroom.

    And I did specifically request in email that the gifted specialist not send any written notices via my son. I told her I would arrange to pick them up so that I could handle telling him at the right time, in the right way.

    But I had to tell him because of what happened at school. The good news is he was OK with it. I think he felt better knowing that he wasn't rejected outright and liked the idea of doing a special project.

    Should I do something about this?

    Right now, they're violating state regulations by non having an up-to-date gifted plan on their website. And they're violating state regulations by telling third-parties about my son's engagement in programming without even sending me a written notice. And then there's the 10 calendar day vs. 10 instructional day for an appeal issue. And if they argue that the plan on the website is old, well they can't.

    And, yes, there could be timeline issues. From what I understand, they could find a way out of August starting the timeline. Referrals are supposed to include a description of why the eval is requested and what has been done to address that. I didn't include that. I requested the eval and was told the new administrator would follow up "in a few days." The administrator claims the other party said I would be contacting him to start the process.

    But, the regulations say that the school-based team must make a decision on whether or not to evaluate within 10 business days. They didn't. I did sign a form giving them permission to evaluate, but they are calling it "observation." It's not testing. They'll come back in January and decide whether to evaluate.

    They have 65 business days from the referral date to determine if a child needs services. I am starting to feel that their "observation" approach is an attempt to stretch the timeline.

    So where do I go from here?

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    Can you find a copy of the procedural safeguards? Did they give that to you? That says what your rights are and on ours at least it gives phone numbers of various advocacy agencies to call to get more info if there is a problem. Districts are required to give this out if a parent makes a request, they are also required to send you a prior written notice whenever they propose to do something or reject your own proposal. Look on the Dept. of Ed website for your state and see if there's a number you can call for assistance with special ed compliance issues.

    I would be annoyed if my kid heard info from another kid about how various kids did on testing. Sounds like someone is unprofessional and a blabbermouth. Are you sure you want to pursue this gifted programming if the school is not really on board? Because if you have to fight for it and they don't understand twice exceptional kids, they will constantly look for reasons why he doesn't really belong there even if they let him in. I think your best move at this point would be to get outside testing if you have the money for it. Go to an evaluator who can also look at the writing issue, and then make recommendations to the school in the report. The school may still ignore it but at least you have it for your own information and will know how much you should push forward trying to get him in the program. That's just my 2 cents at any rate.

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    I second blackcat's suggestion on contacting your state's DOE to clarify the procedural safeguards. Double check that there are 65 business days in the safeguards, because my district says a bunch of verbal stuff that are just whoppers.

    My understanding is that districts can deny a request for evaluation, but they cannot ignore a request for evaluation. I would look at the wording on the signed consent form and make sure that the timeline was not altered. Just my 2 cents too.

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    Thank you so much polar bear, EmmaL , blackcat, and spaghetti. You have all been a huge source of support and information.

    I have realized that I need to look separately at the special education issue and the gifted issue. At the moment, the gifted issue is less of a priority, although I need to make some decisions about it.

    Yes, I received a copy of the "procedural safeguards." There is a problem with when and how I received them. The state regulations say those safeguards should be given to parents at the time of initial referral. I did not.

    I received them at the end of the school-based team ("child study") meeting. This was after the recommended course was "observation" instead of making the go/no-go decision about "evaluation."

    The safeguards document I received contains "key information from IDEA"--but doesn't appear to include any information on the state legislation or procedures. It does not have any information on the timeline for initial evaluation.

    I have not received any documents that educates me on the timeline. That obviously impeded my ability to advocate for my son receiving a formal evaluation at the child study meeting.

    There's another concern I have that could have been alleviated by receiving the procedural safeguards. The reports from the meeting is very "light"--and contains a factual error. I am now aware that I could have audio recorded the meeting to ensure all the discussion was captured and hold the school representatives accountable.

    The OT said she would observe my son in literacy and science. As I mentioned before, she said she would seek to understand whether his issues are fine motor or visual-spatial. My son says she stopped in his class one time, picked up one homework assignment, and copied it. That is all.

    I sent the OT a note yesterday stating that I was concerned that it appears she has taken no meaningful action with my son. There are four instructional days until the next meeting. I'm concerned she won't be able to conduct a meaningful review in that time. I am also concerned about her only reviewing his homework--because I work closely with him on his homework (and that is noted in the report from the meeting). It's not a "pure" reflection of his writing process or issues. I asked for specific detail on what had been done to date and what remains to be done for the meeting.

    I have found the complaint form on the DOE website. It does ask what has been done to resolve complaints at a local level.

    I think I will call a state advocacy organization on Monday and get advice. I will probably send an email to the special ed admin (asst. principal) about how and when I am supposed to receive notification on the timeline and my concerns about the lack of action on the OT observation and the notes lacking detail and containing a factual error.

    Seems odd, but I haven't found anything mandating that parents understand the timeline at the outset of the process for my state. Shouldn't we be? What has your experience been?

    And thanks for all the suggestions for outside testing. I agree and did some research on it a few months ago. Time to reopen exploration of that avenue.

    So many thoughts. I have ideas for how I want to approach the gifted situation too. He's exited about his "special project"--so the project idea could be a good thing. I was going to wait until the next testing window in May to have him tested for the gifted program, but he insisted.

    Thanks again!

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    Thanks again everyone! I am feeling more clear on priorities and on the source of some of my confusion. Still a long road ahead!

    polar bear - thank you for the advice to document verbal conversations. Such a great idea to help ensure clarity.

    I agree with pursuing outside testing. I had wanted to start there, but life took an unexpected turn and going through the schools seemed like an easier road. I will definitely revisit after the first of the year.

    blackcat - thanks for all the perspectives on testing. From looking at the district's policy, I determined that they are doing RTI. I understand that they aren't supposed to be, so am going to contact the school administration about taking corrective action. I'm sure I'll have to go "up the ladder" to get any remedy (and maybe even end up with a complaint), but the policy flaw--and the language in the prior written notice they gave me--are very clearly not correct.

    Right now, my son wants to do the gifted "portfolio project"--so I'm leaning in letting him go ahead. The program is so new that I think he'll get as much enrichment--if not more--by going that route. Still weighing options and waiting until after Winter Break to decide.

    spaghetti - thanks for the sensitivity about my son and his grieving process. I agree the timing is not ideal. The only reason I am anxious about moving ahead with testing is that he's in his last year of elementary. The teachers have been very understanding with him--both with the loss and more recently with his handwriting. They have made some adjustments for him (e.g., letting him bring some work home to type instead of writing). I cannot imagine having to attempt to negotiate with more than 2x the number of teachers in middle school!

    And thanks for the recommendation to investigate the complaint process. I did call the appropriate state office
    today, but found a parents' advocacy organization to be much more informative and helpful.

    The district policy is broken. They allow the use of RTI to delay and eval--and shouldn't. I will see if the district provides any corrections but won't hesitate to take it to the state if they don't.

    Your son sounds amazing! His story gives me hope and motivation to continue advocating for what I know is best for my son.

    EmmaL - thank you for sharing your perspective. I found out that they are using interventions instead of taking action to affirm/deny an eval--which is not the right policy approach. Somehow, I don't have a copy the consent form.

    My younger DD has been referred for speech therapy and will end up with her very own (speech-only) IEP soon. She's had known articulation issues for over a year, but is just now getting an eval.

    Part of that is due to some outside medical/orthodontic evals we were pursuing, but part of that is the district's policy that allows children to fall into a "RTI" and "monitoring" state instead of acting.

    I am a bit mind-blown about all I have learned in the past week. I am actually feeling grateful about the denial of gifted services at this point because it led me on the path to understanding the special education evaluation process much more clearly. And that is priority #1 at this point.

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