Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about the Davidson Academy’s online campus for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute
  • DITD FaceBook   DITD Twitter   DITD YouTube
    The Davidson Institute is on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube!

    How gifted-friendly is
    your state?

    Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update

    Who's Online
    0 registered (), 0 Guests and 113 Spiders online.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    Mvdnest, Ally, Callistro, Marioasn, Tangerine
    11196 Registered Users
    August
    Su M Tu W Th F Sa
    1 2 3 4 5 6
    7 8 9 10 11 12 13
    14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    21 22 23 24 25 26 27
    28 29 30 31
    Page 4 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >
    Topic Options
    #235462 - 12/12/16 07:12 PM Re: Education in the United States [Re: LAF]
    puffin Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/11/12
    Posts: 2035
    I want my kids taught at school, preferably by knowledgeable teachers who answer questions and discuss things. I noticed a tendency in my kid's last school to direct queries to Khan academy or google. If the teachers aren't teaching but instead being homework helpers i vote we pay them half as much and have twice as many.

    Top
    #235464 - 12/12/16 10:34 PM Re: Education in the United States [Re: puffin]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4902
    Originally Posted By: puffin
    I want my kids taught at school, preferably by knowledgeable teachers who answer questions and discuss things. I noticed a tendency in my kid's last school to direct queries to Khan academy or google. If the teachers aren't teaching but instead being homework helpers i vote we pay them half as much and have twice as many.
    smile

    Top
    #235465 - 12/12/16 10:44 PM Re: Education in the United States [Re: ElizabethN]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4902
    Originally Posted By: ElizabethN
    Originally Posted By: LAF
    Regarding puffin's post about ability grouping… there has been a trend at some of the private schools in our area to do "flipped" classrooms… the kids watch a presentation by the teacher explaining what they are teaching them for homework, then students work the problems in the classroom with their groups and the teacher. So they learn the basic idea the night before then practice by doing problems in the classroom.

    FWIW, these were a trend in our public schools, as well. They worked for DD, but I'm not sure if they would work for all kids.
    One of the aims of the "flipped" classroom was to help create equal outcomes by not allowing interested, involved parents to see what their children were working on, thereby avoiding the possibility of some children receiving parental supervision, guidance, or assistance with homework.

    Meanwhile, "flipped" classrooms were often promoted as having children do their homework in the teacher's presence so the teacher would know who was struggling, and what concepts they found difficult, so the teacher could help them. I find this highly implausible, as a teacher would not typically have time to observe and tailor individual help to multiple pupils during the class period.

    Top
    #235466 - 12/13/16 12:43 AM Re: Education in the United States [Re: indigo]
    puffin Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/11/12
    Posts: 2035
    Originally Posted By: indigo
    Originally Posted By: ElizabethN
    Originally Posted By: LAF
    Regarding puffin's post about ability grouping… there has been a trend at some of the private schools in our area to do "flipped" classrooms… the kids watch a presentation by the teacher explaining what they are teaching them for homework, then students work the problems in the classroom with their groups and the teacher. So they learn the basic idea the night before then practice by doing problems in the classroom.

    FWIW, these were a trend in our public schools, as well. They worked for DD, but I'm not sure if they would work for all kids.
    One of the aims of the "flipped" classroom was to help create equal outcomes by not allowing interested, involved parents to see what their children were working on, thereby avoiding the possibility of some children receiving parental supervision, guidance, or assistance with homework.

    Meanwhile, "flipped" classrooms were often promoted as having children do their homework in the teacher's presence so the teacher would know who was struggling, and what concepts they found difficult, so the teacher could help them. I find this highly implausible, as a teacher would not typically have time to observe and tailor individual help to multiple pupils durinyg the class period.


    Since the homework my kids receive rarely relates to what they are learning and they don't have textbooks or workbooks I would propbably be more help and have more input in a flipoed situation. For my kids i guess school would be like a long study hall.

    Top
    #235467 - 12/13/16 04:03 AM Re: Education in the United States [Re: ElizabethN]
    ConnectingDots Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/06/13
    Posts: 848
    Originally Posted By: ElizabethN
    Originally Posted By: LAF
    Regarding puffin's post about ability grouping… there has been a trend at some of the private schools in our area to do "flipped" classrooms… the kids watch a presentation by the teacher explaining what they are teaching them for homework, then students work the problems in the classroom with their groups and the teacher. So they learn the basic idea the night before then practice by doing problems in the classroom.

    FWIW, these were a trend in our public schools, as well. They worked for DD, but I'm not sure if they would work for all kids.


    It assumes the child has an environment at home that includes the technology to watch and absorb the lesson. Also that they are home in time to do so. Unfortunately, that's a leap of faith in our society.

    Top
    #235468 - 12/13/16 04:57 AM Re: Education in the United States [Re: ConnectingDots]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4902
    Originally Posted By: ConnectingDots
    It assumes the child has an environment at home that includes the technology to watch and absorb the lesson. Also that they are home in time to do so. Unfortunately, that's a leap of faith in our society.
    Some schools have been assigning each child a laptop, i-pad, or other technology device. The camera and/or microphone may be remotely turned on to observe the child's use of the device, the study environment, etc. This is not entirely new... see posts from 2013 (1, 2, 3). GPS software can track the location of the device. Those running more sophisticated software can track the amount of time a student spends on each page, even track a student's eye movements across the page while reading. Hence my statement in this post upthread, about being a proponent of books. smile

    Common Core has ushered in extensive data collection on students.

    Here is a link to a discussion on flipped classrooms, from 2013.

    Top
    #235475 - 12/13/16 11:05 AM Re: Education in the United States [Re: LAF]
    atticcat Offline
    Member

    Registered: 06/29/14
    Posts: 58
    I read your post yesterday,and afterward found an article in magazine about PISA.There was mention of new book,Cleverlands by Lucy Crehans,which goes over the data collected.Its still unavailable from Amazon.

    Top
    #235476 - 12/13/16 11:50 AM Re: Education in the United States [Re: atticcat]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4902
    Originally Posted By: atticcat
    new book,Cleverlands by Lucy Crehans,which goes over the data collected.
    Yes! Here are some links:
    https://www.penguin.co.uk/books/1111661/cleverlands/,
    https://www.lkmco.org/cleverlands-inside-the-worlds-best-classrooms/,
    https://vimeo.com/131028201.

    Top
    #235477 - 12/13/16 12:11 PM Re: Education in the United States [Re: atticcat]
    Val Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/01/07
    Posts: 3296
    Loc: California
    Originally Posted By: atticcat
    I read your post yesterday,and afterward found an article in magazine about PISA.There was mention of new book,Cleverlands by Lucy Crehans,which goes over the data collected.Its still unavailable from Amazon.


    You can get it from amazon.co.uk. Their new copies are out of stock, but used copies are available.

    There's a brief excerpt here.

    I'll add something to my list of school reforms in the US: cut down on homework, and no homework until middle school. And, oh...no summer homework for AP classes.

    Top
    #235490 - 12/13/16 09:35 PM Re: Education in the United States [Re: LAF]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    Originally Posted By: ConnectingDots
    Originally Posted By: ElizabethN
    Originally Posted By: LAF
    Regarding puffin's post about ability grouping… there has been a trend at some of the private schools in our area to do "flipped" classrooms… the kids watch a presentation by the teacher explaining what they are teaching them for homework, then students work the problems in the classroom with their groups and the teacher. So they learn the basic idea the night before then practice by doing problems in the classroom.

    FWIW, these were a trend in our public schools, as well. They worked for DD, but I'm not sure if they would work for all kids.


    It assumes the child has an environment at home that includes the technology to watch and absorb the lesson. Also that they are home in time to do so. Unfortunately, that's a leap of faith in our society.



    I must agree. Sadly, environments in disadvantaged children's homes are not exactly conducive to such 'flipped' methodologies, and I strongly suspect that it may only serve to widen the gaps between those who have advantages at home and those who do not-- and those advantages are far from only being financial.

    DD, by virtue of being in a cyberschool, had a lot more of this canned, pre-recorded "teaching" than most kids have, and I can honestly say that this was a terrible pedagogical thing for her personally. In college, it's fine-- but then again, most of the content delivery in college is different to begin with. Some subjects, it works better than others.


    Ditto on the "look it up on Khan/YouTube," too. YUCK.






    To those noting that schools don't teach 'practical' subjects, let me add to Val's already excellent explanation of why subjects like world civ, art history, or literature are emphatically not wastes of time.


    I was in fact taught a very pragmatic set of financial/life skills in a basic literacy course which was required by my state for high school graduation.

    In 1980-something. Early 80's, in fact. I never learned some of those things anywhere else, honestly-- and I'm not sure how my peers learned them. From parents, maybe? I am not sure.

    But from that course, I understood what a home inspection was for, how compound interest and insurance work, how to budget and reconcile a personal financial/banking statement, and the like.

    In terms of what I've found most useful in a vocational sense, yes, that course was among the most valuable I ever took-- and I have a PhD, which is most emphatically not in economics/finance. grin

    I'm also noting with some amusement that dividing education neatly into "practical-- vo-tech" and "pure education" leaves those who go to that great bastion of vocational training, (medical school) being solidly grouped with auto mechanics and electricians.

    I guess it's a matter of perspective, but there are a number of white-collar professions which require substantial amounts of such "vocational" training-- but often only once a liberal arts or 'pure' educational foundation has been laid with an undergraduate degree. wink

    And my opinion is that we tend to treat mathematics entirely improperly in K-12 education and always have (well, for at least 35-40 years)-- by seeing all of that math as preparation for calculus, and not as an ever-expanding and imminently practical, necessary toolbox for understanding and evaluating the world around us. I'm a big fan of applied mathematics, which I believe nearly everyone can learn to some degree-- and not so much (in primary and secondary, at least) of theoretical mathematics for it's own sake. I'm all for trig and calculus for those students who ARE headed in those directions in life. It's just that I would rather that every student learned algebra 1 concepts very thoroughly, and not half of the ideas in geometry and trig as well. If students learned about half as much as the curriculum theoretically covers, but truly[ learned it, the world would be a much improved place.

    I'm all for proofs (real ones-- not the balogna that passes for them now) in geometry-- but because of what they teach students about critical thought and logic and problem solving. Not because I think that most students are going to use that geometry regularly. They won't. You know what most of them will use and seldom even SEE before leaving high school?

    Statistics, that is what. I'd love for algebra II to be replaced by a year of statistics-- with ability tracking into a "you're going to be taking advanced mathematics" versus "this is the end of the line, probably, unless you take college algebra."
    _________________________
    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.

    Top
    Page 4 of 5 < 1 2 3 4 5 >


    Moderator:  M-Moderator 
    Recent Posts
    Tips for a highly gifted child/adolescent in math
    by Eagle Mum
    Yesterday at 06:10 AM
    Understanding testing!
    by giftedamateur
    08/17/22 12:26 PM
    Speed reading
    by millersb02
    08/16/22 11:37 AM
    Gifted 5 year old
    by GCN3030
    08/10/22 12:36 PM
    linking to posts in General Discussion forum
    by giftedamateur
    08/04/22 06:42 PM
    Davidson Institute Twitter