Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Achievement Scores Higher than Cognitive Scores

New here and looking for guidance.

From what I gather my daughter has a reverse achievement ability discrepancy? Her achievement scores are higher than her cognitive scores.

She was given a DAS test and her verbal was 134, spatial 97 and nonverbal 101.

On the WIAT her scores were all much higher in both math and reading. Reading ranges from 140-160 and math from 130 to 144.

is this a reverse discrepancy? Is this a sign of a learning disability?

We also suspect ADD so could that impact the difference in cognitive and achievement?

She was 6.5 at the time of testing. Her school curriculum is not great either.

thank you for your help.

Some kids do - they are generally hard workers and very successful in life. On the other hand the she may have got a lower score than she should have.

Puffin, thank you for reading my post. She is definitely not a hard worker. The opposite in fact. We had her tested because we are seeing lack of interest and underachievement in the classroom. So could it mean a learning challenge?

I would want a WISC instead of the DAS before I jumped to any conclusions.

Do you know what version of the DAS she was given? Upper early years or school age?

Priiak asks an excellent question. Your DC was near the top of the norms for early years (which is the form her age nominally would have placed her on), which could have artificially depressed her highest scores, due to ceiling effects. The recommendation is for above average students in this age group to be assessed using the school age form (which nominally begins from age 7, but does have norms for six-year-olds).

Thank you aeh and Priiak. She was given the DAS II Early Years test whatever that means.
I do see that her nonverbal and spatial skills are all in average range.
But in the verbal section her verbal comprehension is much higher (80) than her score in the naming section (58).
Still as I mentioned across the board achievement were much higher.. reading comprehension 140, word reading 146, total math 139, etc.
So what does this discrepancy mean? What should I be looking for?

Ah. That is a rather large difference between the two subtests of the verbal cluster (2+ SDs), which suggests that the cluster score does not fully capture her ability. Her higher subtest score is +3 SDs (+3 SD at the cluster level would be 145--though it doesn't necessarily follow that that would be her true Verbal score), while the lower one is at the upper end of the average range. 145 would, however be pretty consistent with her achievement scores.

There are a number of different possible explanations both for this internal diversity, in verbal, and for the intercluster diversity, among verbal, nonverbal, and spatial. Which one is the "true" explanation is not something we can determine here, but I'll throw out some possibilities for you to try out:

1. attention: you already suspect ADHD.
2. language: yes, even with those high scores.

By language, I mean that there may be general challenges with language processing, specific differences in receptive versus expressive language, differences in retrieving vocabulary efficiently (hence, naming vocabulary), etc.

3. visual-perceptual differences--here I am thinking particularly of the globally lower (comparatively, of course; they are still age-appropriate) reduced-verbal scores, in spatial and fluid reasoning areas. Though they are not reflected in formal achievement scores, I wonder if they are a component in the classroom behavior, in terms of reaching for the more efficient mode (talking) when not keeping up on reading nonverbal cues. This tends to look to teachers like excessive chattiness and distractibility, or even talking back.

A corollary: if one has very high verbal ability, but generates written products only at (or even below) grade level, it is quite common for conventional grade-level instruction to be both too easy and too hard at the same time. Children do not always choose coping strategies for this that adults find acceptable, which adults then interpret as boredom, inattention, or noncompliance.

Thank you aeh. I was waiting for a reply. I appreciate your thoughtfulness. You have given me a lot to think about.

I never thought of language as a problem. She is a voracious reader, reading books way beyond grade level. In fact, reading in class is her way of rebelling I think. We often talk about what she reads (mostly nonfiction) and while I have not formally tested her she seems to be fully comprehending what she reads. How would I test for a receptive language problem? What would the clues be?

Her handwriting is poor and the only achievement test not in 130+ range. She is generally impatient and has a hard time slowing down to write.

The too hard and too easy comment struck me. She once wrote on a math test "I am mistreated." I asked her what that meant and she said the work was too easy. It was so easy that it was hard.

So what to do next?

Regarding language, you would want an evaluation done by a speech language pathologist. A related possibility would be an auditory processing disorder (evaluated by an audiologist), which might not show up as affecting language when the language is in print, but could very easily affect how she receives language when it is spoken, especially in a busy environment, like a classroom. This, by the way, often is part of the diagnostic discussion with ADHD, as there is much overlap in their presentation. Alternatively, (and more like her testing) she may understand language very well, but have more challenge expressing herself. This would affect how she communicates her feelings, organizes her thoughts, both when speaking and writing, and feels about writing assignments. It may be worth investigating if that is also a contributor to her impatience with writing.

The gap between handwriting and other academic skills is a classic "too easy/too hard" situation, since so many of our educational conventions require written paper products, even when the ostensible learning goal has nothing to do with handwriting or written language.