Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Twice Exceptional Kindergarten issues - possible ADHD?

It sounds like he's bored. I would be curious to see the impact on 'focus' of more challenging material. How does he behave when doing more academic activities at home? If he reads happily, can he do so in a sustained manner? If he enjoys math puzzles, can he persist at a problem? To me, those would be more appropriate measures of his ability to attend than occasions where the teacher (in my opinion, inappropriately) leaves the class.

Also, I just wanted to flag one thing you mentioned in your OP, readermom123. You alluded to diminished focus during homework. What homework is required of your son in kindergarten? If it's more than ten minutes a night--or if it's busywork that covers material he's already mastered--I would skip it altogether or substitute with a challenge he enjoys for a short time.

His attention with challenging things depends on how interested he is at the time. He tends to 'grab' things and go for it with gusto and then drop it. One weekend he sat and did coloring sheets for at least 10 hours of the weekend, and he especially loved any color by number sheets I could find (that were relatively simple). Or he'll sit and do mazes, but then the next week he won't want to do it. As far as reading, he's still learning so he can only do about 20 pages (with one or 2 beginning reader sentences on each page) before I think his brain tires out. He'll sit and listen to quite a bit more though.

To answer your other question about homework, he gets a sheet of paper with 4 small homework exercises for them Mon-Thurs. The most time consuming one just started last week and asked them write 3 sentences that use the sight words they're learning. Other than that it's been simple math problems, writing a word and coloring a picture, etc. He also has little paper books that he's worked on in class that he's supposed to read to us. Often he hasn't finished those so I ask him to finish them up (write a couple of words, color a few pictures). And for a couple of weeks we had a handwriting booklet to work with him on. It probably takes 20 minutes most nights? The handwriting thing makes stuff tricky because he knows all the information we're asking him to do, but getting him to write it down correctly is more challenging. At first he was resistant to forming his letters in a consistent way (i.e., one day he'd want to start all the letters on the bottom, or turn the paper upside down, or start it 'backwards', etc) but he is getting a bit better. It still seems to be a tedious and frustrating exercise for him but I think he just needs to practice it to get better.

Your best bet for a 2e specialist if you want to go that route is to try a post asking for recommendations for your area in the regions forum on here.

I'm not sure if I were you that I'd go that route just yet. I'd probably wait to see how things are going this time next year. A year of maturity and a new teacher might make a big difference.

Your son sounds more normal than the other kids unless they are mostly a year older.

Agree with puffin. Am baffled that a teacher keeps leaving a room full of five year olds and there aren't a lot more of them getting up to all sorts of mayhem. And am baffled by the amount of homework for a five year old. Is removing him and sending him to first grade next year an option at all?

And if it's not, the first thing that's must go on the teachers side is her punitive attitude. So she's saying your kids got ADHD, a learning disability, and punishing him by taking away fun things is going to make it better? Would it make sense to her to punish a child in a wheelchair because it might make him walk? A behavioral plan might help him learn better impulse control, but ONLY if it is positive reinforcement - use points to build up to something good. And don't listen to her moaning what about the other kids, who do sit still - that's the point. They can do it, they don't need it. Put up a reward system, points awarded for every minute he does stay in his seat when she, as apparently for some unfathomable reason she keeps doing, leaves her classroom. Just make her award the points to the other kids too, if she feels she needs to, who cares. What he can buy from you with his reward points is not her business. And no taking away points. Just building good habits. You may want to read up on Kazdin method. I never got around to properly using it, but it really helps reframe positive habit building as opposed to the punishment that serves for nothing but selfishly make the authority figure feel better.

Tigerle, we talked a bit about the 'behavior plan' today although we haven't had our full conference meeting about it yet. It sounds somewhat similar to the Kazdin method, lots of positive reinforcement and keeping closer track of when he's having issues throughout the day. I've read through the book a bit but didn't start to implement it at home because it seemed a bit rigid. I did like it though. The class actually already has a few reward systems, such as 'sprinkles' they can get on a cupcake and 'brag tags' that get handed out but both of those things are more for 'special occasion' types of good behavior.

I do think having a bit more data about when he's having trouble would be good. She's really not upset with him or trying to mean with him and I agree so far with the things she's been removing privileges for. I don't think he should be punished for looking at the ceiling or standing up a bit, but actively deciding to put random things on his head and run around seems to be taking it a bit too far, ha. I do hope she starts to get a bit more consistent though, at the moment she seems to be stuck in a bit of a 'big threat, then back off' sort of pattern, and he's definitely catching on. Nothing I can really do about it I don't think though.

I don't think my husband would ever want him to leave school and I'm honestly not sure it would help much although I may be wrong. It feels to me like he's just going to need to learn to handle this sort of environment, and giving him another year would just put him further behind.

I am gifted, my husband has severe ADHD and I think would be identified as gifted as well. I imagined my DD5 might be identified as bright or gifted based on milestones reached and heredity. We've also been on the look out for ADHD. We decided that Montessori would be a good fit for her early on, whether she is gifted or has ADHD or both. We liked that she could work at her own pace and also that she didn't have to sit in one spot and be "lectured at" when we could tell that would be a struggle.

If you're not familiar w/ Montessori (didn't get through all the PPs) they have a 3 yr range, so prek/k is from 3-6 and you stay in the same classroom for all 3 yrs w/ peers both younger and older. For most of the 1st two years her teacher didn't see any indication of ADHD. Then towards the end of last yr (right before she turned 5 in May) there some signs popping up that I recognized from my hubby. The teacher also mentioned a few things. We went to an ADHD expert facility for an initial appt b/c if she did appear to be going the ADHD route we wanted to alter our parenting strategies accordingly. The dev pedi said maybe some signs of ADHD but that we really should have her evaluated for giftedness based on her articulation and my history.

I hemmed and hawed and made full use of imposter syndrome until I spoke w/ parent friends that have a similar profile (gifted + maybe ADHD) who recommended a well-known (listed on Hoagies "Find a provider" section) neuropsych in the area that is an expert on giftedness and 2E. Meanwhile her teacher was kinda flippant about the idea of DD5 being gifted- had a "of course she is, all Montessori kids test as gifted" attitude about her. (We now believe she is confusing high IQ w/ high test scores which explains her idea about Montessori kids as it does seem kids are presented w/ advanced material sooner in Montessori than in a traditional public school.)

I questioned the neuropsych doc at length as to whether we should bother testing her if we intend to keep her in Montessori and she seems to be doing well. She pointed out that information is good, especially when considering all we might have going on. So we had the eval last week and got the scores that day. I expected her to be labeled bright or mild/moderately gifted, maybe even into the 130 IQ range. I was shocked at her results (FSIQ 148), it wasn't even on my radar as a possibility. More than that...it was across the board high. She was in the 99.9% in both working memory and processing speed, which as a mom expecting the start of severe ADHD absolutely blew my mind. The neuropsychD said that she seemed to have difficulty focusing but that the more challenging the questions, the more focused *and happy!!* she appeared. At this point I knew that the traits of gifted vs ADHD can overlap, but the idea that perhaps she hasn't been "focused" b/c she hasn't been challenged was eye-opening! Yet her teacher was leaning twds ADHD and very dismissive of officially gifted vs just testing well all b/c of Montessori. Mind blown for me!

Now the neuropsych dr isn't ruling ADHD out, she says she noticed a "spaciness" that she thinks is genuine at times, but for now she recommends we hold off on the official ADHD testing for a couple of years. She told us to "act as if" (work on diet, exercise, sleep, structure) she's 2E but unless it gets to the point that there's some adverse events happening, no reason to take it further. And she said it's quite possible that she doesn't have ADHD but instead her high IQ is showing up in these "quirks" we've assumed were ADHD.

She did stress that an appropriate educational environment must be a priority. She said a traditional school would be detrimental for her, and that there are very few schools in the area that would work for her. (stress!) DD5 needs to have movement and needs to be somewhere she can openly "challenge" what she's told, ask questions, raise doubts, etc. She needs be challenged mentally or she's apt to act out behaviorally. She also has some possible mild sensory stuff to work through - and if you haven't already, check out Dabrowski's 5 overexcitabilities in gifted children for more info there.

So much to digest and I'm still in the fact-finding phase...but just wanted to paint you a picture of something similar that turned out differently from what we initially assumed. Perhaps your little one has ADHD, perhaps gifted, perhaps both, perhaps it's both but not nearly as much of one as the other and what you and the teachers are seeing as ADHD might be quirks of high IQ.

Best of luck! This stuff is hard. I'm so thankful to have found this forum and am actively seeking out others to surround myself w/ BTDTs.

I didn't read the replies but when my daughter started kindergarten, and I saw her compared to her peers, her issues were much clearer than they had been previously. It was really hard to get her to focus on worksheets, even if they were the right level, and written work of any kind, and she was wiggly, impulsive, slow with transitions because she was distracted, etc. For instance she would be the last kid to put her stuff away, get her coat and boots on, etc. Year after year went by and it never seemed like there was much improvement with focus at school in terms of the work, however she did calm down a lot and was much less hyper on medication. She did also improve somewhat with focus. Hope this helps. She has always been able to focus well with things that interest her, which is typical of kids with ADHD.