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    Joined: Oct 2016
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    I recently filled out the paperwork to have my son tested at the GDC in Denver. I had a previous evaluation done by a neuropsychologist locally but his scores were so scattered I felt I needed someone with 2E experience the second time. During my initial call with the GDC, they raised a number of issues that they suggest we look into before he gets tested.

    Among possibilities that they raised and we suspect are: ADHD, Visual Processing, CAPD, dysgraphia.

    In the first evaluation, he was diagnosed as ADHD. We tried medication but it didn't work. He has also had Vision Therapy for 6 months which helped some but didn�t solve the problem.

    We are completely confused because even though he has some symptoms of some of the above he doesn�t really fit any of them completely. When I read about CAPD for instance it just doesn�t sound like him but who knows. I am so dizzied up at this point.

    GDC suggested Abel Kids in Colorado for CAPD testing.

    But I would like to know if there is one place we can go to do comprehensive and accurate testing for all of the above? Is this even possible? Or will we forever be trying to make sense of his unique cocktail?

    Thank you for any help you can provide.

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    HappyMama, I reread your first post to the forum to get a sense of what was going on with your ds' scores - I'm confused a little bit by that post because it sounds (there) like your ds hadn't been through vision therapy yet. If he's had 6 months VT *after* the neuropsych testing, then chances are good, if you've noticed some improvement, that his test scores may change up a bit next time he's tested.

    It's highly unlikely you'll find one place that will have all the tests and all the answers for you. You're headed in the right direction by starting off with a neuropsych eval - I'm guessing the scores that are posted in your other thread are from that eval. Did that eval include any additional type of tests in addition to IQ and achievement tests? Anything to tease out or diagnose the ADHD? Anything to look into motor or visual challenges? If you have more tests from that eval, we might be able to give you some more specific input.

    I personally think it's *great* that the GDC reviewed the tests you have and made suggestions for additional testing before they do an eval. CAPD testing is very specific to audiologists - a neuropsych and/or a testing center like GDC isn't going to offer it, but the fact that they looked at your ds' scores and recognized a pattern that might suggest it is good info for you. I suspect you can get CAPD testing paid for by medical insurance too. I'm not sure where you live, but if you're far away from the center recommended by GDC you can look locally.

    Did the neuropsych who originally evaluated your ds say anything about the possibility of dysgraphia or a fine motor challenge? Dysgraphia can have a visual or a fine motor root, and there are tests that neuropsychs frequently offer that determine which is the cause of suspected dysgraphia. I suspect your neuropsych felt it was vision-related due to the recommendation for VT, but if you have other test results and can post them, we can look and let you know if it looks like their might be a fine motor issue. If there *is* fine motor involved, it might be helpful to have an OT eval - is that what GDC was recommending? Or did they also look at any writing samples etc from your ds?

    What did your ds' optometrist find in his initial assessment before he began VT? Again, a neuropsych can see from their eval that a vision challenge exists, but the optometrist is the professional who diagnoses what the actual challenge is. Some vision challenges are resolved quickly with VT, others can take more time. The time required for a full program of VT can also vary depending on how frequently the person does exercises as well as how many times per week they have in-office VT.

    So.. in a nutshell, no, I doubt there is one place you can go to get all of your answers. I do think you already have quite a bit of great data as a starting point, and you've had a recommendation to gather more data before spending $ for testing at the GDC - I think that's a sound recommendation, otherwise you will likely have another set of ability and achievement testing with questions out there such as - are the discrepancies due to CAPD or dysgraphia etc.

    Hope that makes sense! And good luck - it isn't easy getting to the root of 2e challenges, but it *is* very much worth figuring it out.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    Thank you Portia and Polarbear. I am so appreciative of the advice and support on these forums.

    GDC suggested that I read the Mislabeled Child. I read the chapters on SPD, CAPD, ADHD and Dysgraphia. None of them really seemed to fit my son. The only chapter that seemed a match was the last chapter on problems gifted kids face due to their giftedness. Maybe I am in denial but I don't think so.

    What if I reverse engineered this - did the testing and then based on the results I could chase down the 2E issues? My reason for testing is not to get him into a program but to understand him so I can meet his needs now and in the future by ferreting out his exceptionalities. He does have the vision issue and maybe touches of all of the above but not even close to what they describe in the book.

    Is this crazy - to test first in an attempt to understand exceptionalities? His first testing was done by a local psych who did not impress me or GDC.



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    I'm confused. Did you actually have a phone intake/consult with GDC where they reviewed your prior testing? I've heard from a few people that GDC farms people out to Able Kids for CAPD testing and to Hellerstein & Brenner for behavioral optometry/VT assessments. It's usually been after they've gone through GDC and they saw an area of concern. Did GDC recommend any additional testing through GDC or did they think that they give you a reading based on your prior testing once you got the other assessments that they recommended?

    With respect to CAPD, you may want to review the Able Kids website. Maybe it would give you more insight as to whether it might apply to your kid.
    http://www.ablekidsfoundation.org/
    Since it doesn't sound like you live in CO, you may want to ask Able Kids if they could recommend someone who practices in your state.

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    Portia - it sounds like you have been through the ringer. What an ordeal. Shows how critical it is to have testing done by 2E specialist.

    knute974 - we have not met with GDC in person. They made these recommendations based on the checklists we filled out and prior testing.

    After reading The Mislabeled Child, I really don't think he has CAPD, SPD, ADHD or dysgraphia. He can write fine when he wants to and puts effort into it. That is what he is like in general.

    I think I have a kid who as the Eides describe is like a "wild horse" who refuses to be tamed. He wants to do what pleases him, wants to study and focus on what he deems to be important. He is willful and stubborn and not motivated by things most kids are - grades, teacher approval, etc. He goes to a challenging albeit traditional private school. His teacher and the school headmaster feel his underachievement is due to effort. They look at his scores on standardized testing.

    I would feel better though knowing his underachievement was not a result of some undiagnosed learning disability. I don't want to wake up years from now wondering what if... But right now I am so dizzied up I feel paralyzed and don't know where to start. We know he has the vision issue and executive functioning issues... but not sure what else..the EF issues stem from motivation i think....

    Hence - my thought process is to get him tested by a 2E specialist (not a local hack) who can point us in the right direction if in fact there are other 2E issues involved...

    Does this make sense?


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    Originally Posted by HappyMama
    After reading The Mislabeled Child, I really don't think he has CAPD, SPD, ADHD or dysgraphia. He can write fine when he wants to and puts effort into it. That is what he is like in general.

    I'd be very hesitant to think that you can determine a diagnosis without professional input and testing. I'm not saying that because I doubt any of your own ability or your knowledge of your child, I"m saying that as the parent of a two 2e kids, both of whom have diagnoses that caught me completely off guard and I would not have picked up on in a million years through reading lists of symptoms... even the very same lists of symptoms that go along with their diagnoses smile

    Quote
    He wants to do what pleases him, wants to study and focus on what he deems to be important. He is willful and stubborn and not motivated by things most kids are - grades, teacher approval, etc.

    It's possible that what you're seeing is personality, but it's also possible that what you're seeing is a child who's struggling with a challenge. Each of my 2e kids has at various times appeared to be stubborn, difficult to motivate, seems to be able to accomplish work when they want to, etc. It's beyond impossible sometimes as a parent to tease out whether or not there's something up vs just a kid being just a kid. What you have that may be indicating it's something more than just a stubborn child is a professional diagnosis of ADHD and visual challenges, testing with possibly unexplained discrepancies, and enough concern on your part that you're questioning what's up. Those things combined certainly point to enough questions to follow through with looking into what's going on.

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    His teacher and the school headmaster feel his underachievement is due to effort. They look at his scores on standardized testing.

    One thing you could do is also look at his scores on standardized testing, but look at it through the lens of thinking through how the test is administered, setting, is it timed, would there possibly be a challenge with focus etc. You can ask (not sure you'd be able to get this but you can ask) if he actually finished all the questions and got questions incorrect (therefore lower than expected score), or if he got answers mostly correct but didn't finish (therefore lower than expected score).

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    right now I am so dizzied up I feel paralyzed and don't know where to start. We know he has the vision issue and executive functioning issues... but not sure what else..

    FWIW, either of these issues alone could be causing enough challenges that he's underachieving, not motivated etc.

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    the EF issues stem from motivation i think....

    Your ds is still young... imagine being in his shoes and having your parents and teachers convinced you weren't trying your best... but you were? Until you know for sure that he doesn't have other challenges, and until you know for sure that he's had adequate accommodations for the challenges he's been diagnosed with (ADHD, vision), I'd be very cautious about sending any messages to him that you see him as not motivated. My ds in particular appeared to be totally unmotivated in his 2nd grade classroom prior to diagnosis, and even after we knew what was up, he still often (for years) appeared unmotivated to teachers who didn't understand his challenges. He was quick to pick up on other people perceiving him as not being motivated and it had a really negative impact. You don't know this is the case, but it may be better for now to err on the side of doubt and assume he is motivated but can't complete the tasks he's being given, or can't show his full knowledge. Living with an EF or vision (or other) challenge can be very frustrating for a child, adding in the frustration of thinking that the adults in your life don't see the challenge and see you as non-motivated, and it can be really disheartening.

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    Hence - my thought process is to get him tested by a 2E specialist (not a local hack) who can point us in the right direction if in fact there are other 2E issues involved...

    Although it would be nice to see a professional who deals with 2e, if you don't have access to a 2e specialist, it isn't a make-or-break deal. We live far from any 2e specialists and were able to get meaningful evaluations that recognized both giftedness and challenges. I do think you've gotten good direction from the GDC - you already have one set of testing, and they've given you follow-up recommendations based on the results of the first set of testing, and they're willing to follow-up with you after you've pursued those pieces of the puzzle.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    Polarbear - thank you for your thoughtful reply and insights. I am grateful for your experience and wisdom. As you can tell I am really struggling with next steps. My husband is less "worried" and is taking a more passive approach. I am a wreck.

    I too am worried about calling him an underachiever if he does have a challenges. Actually it's not an if, we know he does have vision, EF, maybe ADHD and possibly other 2E struggles.

    The school - a challenging private school - believes he is underachieving because they see the NPR 99 on all of his Iowa Testing, which of course is just a snapshot. They see in class that he knows the material intellectually but struggles with output.

    I can easily travel to a nearby 2e specialist for testing in CA or AZ. I am in Nevada. I can't justify going to Colorado for CAPD or an OT for SPD testing when I don't think those are the primary issues.

    Of course I am not objective enough to diagnose my own child but I don't want to put him through unnecessary testing either.

    Thus I go to a 2E specialist and hope they can point me down a path based on their testing??? I look at the testing as a starting point in our journey.



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