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    #234416 - 10/21/16 07:13 AM 504 quick question
    greenlotus Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/17/14
    Posts: 569
    DD11's 504 states she is supposed to have her teachers check her agenda to see if she wrote down the assignment. Well OF COURSE she cannot remember to have them check it. One teacher is following the 504 to the letter whereas the others are more lenient. How do others deal with the "checking the agenda" situation? I can and do look up homework at night on the teachers' websites so I can double check to see if she is doing all the work, but I am gone some nights and DD won't work with DH. Sigh.


    Edited by greenlotus (10/21/16 07:15 AM)
    Edit Reason: Left out something

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    #234417 - 10/21/16 07:14 AM Re: 504 quick question [Re: greenlotus]
    greenlotus Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/17/14
    Posts: 569
    PS - this is 7th grade so this particular teacher is strict strict strict.

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    #234421 - 10/21/16 08:38 AM Re: 504 quick question [Re: greenlotus]
    blackcat Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/23/13
    Posts: 2154
    DD is in middle school and goes to a "strategies" class instead of foreign lang. and that's where they check the planner and work on organizational skills. All of those kids are on ieps. I don't think the teachers check planners. If a kid is impaired enough that they aren't doing the work then I think they would write an IEP. (504's are basically useless in my opinion--I think if you try to fight the teachers to check the planner, it will be an uphill battle).

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    #234429 - 10/21/16 11:40 AM Re: 504 quick question [Re: greenlotus]
    polarbear Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/29/11
    Posts: 3363
    We haven't had this specific problem but we've had the experience of having some teachers follow the 504 without question and others being lax. When you had the original 504 meeting, were all of the teachers in attendance? Did your dd attend the meeting also? I've found that's the single most helpful thing for us in getting teachers to follow the 504... often things like this type of accommodation turn out slightly different in implementation in the 504 than the way I'd imagined they'd work best, because the teachers have different ideas about what will and won't work for the teachers in the classroom - and that's ok, as long as the challenge is accommodated.

    My ds was highly ef-challenged and had trouble writing down assignments and keeping assignments organized. Rather than having teachers check what he'd written down, his teachers let him take a picture of the assignments that were written on the board. Chances are there are some classes where assignments aren't written on the board, but that's one possibility for a start with some classes. The other thing we did was reinforce reinforce reinforce at home until it became habit (which took years... but it was so worth it!). When ds was in 6th grade and I thought getting him organized was absolutely hopeless I read a post online from a mom of a teen with adhd who said she'd hired a college student to pick her ds up at school, review what he'd done in each class that day and what the homework was in each class, made sure he had the correct set of books etc in his backpack, and drove him home. I did that for my ds for much of the next two years - and still today ask him to tell me about what he did in school and what his homework is every day after he comes home. I imagine you're already doing this, but mention it only because it, combined with having at least one teacher each year who was organized and gave systematic homework out (usually in math, where there was an assignment every day, turn it in in the same place every day etc) - those two things really did help. I still talk through my ds' assignments with him every day, but at this point he can manage without that - our talks have turned into focusing more on planning and how he's dividing up his time. The other benefit - they've given us an expectation of checking in with each other through those early teen years when so many kids don't want to check in with parents... this has been so helpful to me in other ways I've done the same thing with my younger kids who don't have ef challenges smile

    Back to the 504 - I think honestly it's not going to be easy to get each teacher to check each day. Our ds was offered the solution mentioned in one reply above - a study hall / study skills class at the end of each day, where the teacher would check to be sure he had all of his assignments written down and if not, he would be sent back to each class to get the assignments. We opted to *not* have ds take that class because it would have replaced one of only two electives in his schedule.

    My recommendation is to call a 504 meeting (you can have another meeting to address issues like this at any time), request that the teachers be at the meeting, point out that the accommodation isn't being followed, and have a discussion that's open to the possibility of a different way of implementing the accommodation. If the team can't find a different way, then keep the accommodation in place as it is, but at least the teachers who aren't following it now will have a reinforcement that it does need to be followed.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    #234436 - 10/21/16 05:26 PM Re: 504 quick question [Re: greenlotus]
    puffin Offline
    Member

    Registered: 12/11/12
    Posts: 2031
    Is the problem that the strict teacher won't remind DD to check because it is worded 'DD will have the teacher check' rather than 'the teacher will check'? Or is the problem with the more relaxed teachers not always doing it?

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    #234437 - 10/21/16 07:28 PM Re: 504 quick question [Re: puffin]
    greenlotus Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/17/14
    Posts: 569
    Originally Posted By: puffin
    Is the problem that the strict teacher won't remind DD to check because it is worded 'DD will have the teacher check' rather than 'the teacher will check'? Or is the problem with the more relaxed teachers not always doing it?


    Yep! The 504 is written to say that DD will go to the teacher and have him/her check the agenda. DD cannot remember to do that. The teacher is following the 504 exactly as worded. She expects DD to come to her. The other teachers just let DD bring the work in when they figure out the homework didn't make it in (which actually has only happened 4 times this quarter!!). They do dock her a few points just to acknowledge that the item was late.

    I loved the idea of the camera, but phones aren't allowed in the classroom. Also, DD would probably forget to take the picture.

    I like the idea of the teacher handing DD a sheet with the homework printed out.

    Final twist - turns out that most of the zero's in class are "in class" work. DD took home her class notebook to perfect her essays and so forgot to return the notebook to the box several times. Have any ideas about this?

    DD is doing so much better getting all her work turned in. She has always received A's, and in this, her strongest class, she is getting mid-80's. Her grades are either 100's or 0's. It's frustrating because the year she does the best, it's her most favorite subject that is causing her the most angst.

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    #234442 - 10/22/16 08:57 AM Re: 504 quick question [Re: greenlotus]
    greenlotus Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/17/14
    Posts: 569
    Can I cry?
    So I just sat down with DD to go over her latest project for this teacher. Her sister has the same project, by the way, with another teacher. DD was given the "deeper" project. Well, turns out deeper = way more work. About 3 times the amount of work. And I am having to oversee it to make sure we break it down so a bit of work is done daily. DD of course is protesting and complaining so now I am getting a headache.

    I see this issue come up all the time on this forum. It's maddening.

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    #234444 - 10/22/16 07:14 PM Re: 504 quick question [Re: greenlotus]
    polarbear Offline
    Member

    Registered: 09/29/11
    Posts: 3363
    Originally Posted By: greenlotus

    Yep! The 504 is written to say that DD will go to the teacher and have him/her check the agenda. DD cannot remember to do that. The teacher is following the 504 exactly as worded. She expects DD to come to her. The other teachers just let DD bring the work in when they figure out the homework didn't make it in (which actually has only happened 4 times this quarter!!). They do dock her a few points just to acknowledge that the item was late.

    I loved the idea of the camera, but phones aren't allowed in the classroom. Also, DD would probably forget to take the picture.


    I think your dd is still young enough that you can request the teacher give her a copy of the homework, or at least request that the teacher check with your dd rather than expecting your dd to check with the teacher. My ds' teachers started expecting him to somewhat self-advocate in middle school, and by the time he was in high school self-advocacy was really pushed as an expectation and somewhat built into his 504.

    Although your dd might not be ready for this, for anyone else who's reading (and possibly for your dd), this is how my ds deals with this type of a challenge:

    1) His school doesn't allow cell phones in the classroom either (with some exceptions based on the teacher) - the key is, if you need taking a picture as an accommodation, you can specify in the 504 that your student is allowed to have the piece of AT that they will use to take a picture (ds also uses a laptop/iPad to write as part of his 504, and he can use those in addition to his phone to take pictures, but he prefers to keep everything together, pictures and notes, in one app on his phone.

    2) DS uses the alarm function on his phone to set reminders to do all sorts of things re academics, including turning in assignments. He uses reminders on his phone for a lot of other things too outside of school.

    3) I found middle school really really frustrating for *me* because there are so many different options for AT and non-tech etc that can help kids who have EF challenges, and I so wanted to help ds find that magic something that would really really help. He was not easy to convince re trying things either, we'd go through apps together, attend AT sessions together etc... and he'd take it all in but was really resistant to trying things. I think there was a large piece of denial plus not wanting mom involved at that age. Things like using the reminder alerts on his phone he worked out entirely on his own once he was just a bit older (in high school). Something just clicked later - not in terms of magically becoming more organized, but in terms of taking ownership of staying on top of his challenge.

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    #234445 - 10/22/16 11:36 PM Re: 504 quick question [Re: greenlotus]
    indigo Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4224
    Originally Posted By: greenlotus
    Can I cry?
    ...
    DD was given the "deeper" project. Well, turns out deeper = way more work. About 3 times the amount of work.
    ...
    I see this issue come up all the time on this forum. It's maddening.
    Yes, this sounds like "differentiated task demands", and is listed in this roundup of buzzwords. What gifted kids generally need and benefit from is differentiation in curriculum placement and pacing, not differentiation in task demands.

    Differentiated task demands can be a strategy used by schools to generate the same grades for students of various different levels of demonstrated abilities. The goal would be creating the appearance of closing the achievement gap or closing the excellence gap, by having a permanent record of grades which document equal outcomes for all students. There is a roundup of several of these strategies here.

    The introduction of Common Core and its attendant data collection enable the government to grant funding to schools which show equal outcomes, and withhold funding from schools which do not show equal outcomes. Additionally, the data collection pinpoints which teachers are assigning grades which document equal outcomes (and who can therefore remain employed) and those teachers who are not assigning grades which indicate equal outcomes (and who will therefore not remain employed). Identification of teacher is specified as data category #7 on this list by the US Department of Education.

    One party's platform specifically states
    "... we see wide disparities in educational outcomes... " and "cradle to college pipeline"
    while another party's platform states
    "Parents are a child’s first and foremost educators, and have primary responsibility for the education of their children. Parents have a right to direct their children’s education, care, and upbringing. We support a constitutional amendment to protect that right from interference by states, the federal government, or international bodies such as the United Nations. We reject a one-size-fits-all approach to education and support a broad range of choices for parents and children at the state and local level. We likewise repeat our long-standing opposition to the imposition of national standards and assessments, encourage the parents and educators who are implementing alternatives to Common Core, and congratulate the states which have successfully repealed it. Their education reform movement calls for choice-based, parent-driven accountability at every stage of schooling. It affirms higher expectations for all students and rejects the crippling bigotry of low expectations. It recognizes the wisdom of local control of our schools and it wisely sees consumer rights in education — choice — as the most important driving force for renewing education. It rejects excessive testing and “teaching to the test” and supports the need for strong assessments to serve as a tool so teachers can tailor teaching to meet student needs."
    Both platforms exist on the internet archive (Way Back Machine):
    - Dem, 55 pages.
    - Rep, 66 pages.

    While I would not suggest how one should vote, parents may want to be aware that the form of the US public educational system is determined by the philosophy in either platform. This specifically pertains to gifted education.

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