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    And I have another post today. DD12 is taking Algebra 1 this year. Fortunately, she seems to have had a mental growth spurt since last year and is doing beautifully with the concepts they're covering. However, we see her losing a lot of points on tests due to stupid mistakes, such as sign errors, using the wrong operation because she wrote too small and couldn't see it well, multiplication/division mistakes, etc. Conceptually, everything looks great, and she's just as likely to get points off on an easy problem and nail the hardest one.

    One problem is that she insists on doing things in her head that she should NOT do in her head. Another is that she squeezes everything into tiny spaces to "save paper" and doesn't write her work down in a clear, organized, and sequential fashion. Finally, and to me the most concerningly, she also says that she is somewhat crunched for time. Thoughts?

    As some may remember, we have questioned this double-accelerated placement for DD. She has no passion for math and it's her least favorite class--and this is a track that puts her finishing calculus in 11th grade. Her cop-out option right now, unfortunately, would be to repeat last year. She has a solid B in the class due to Bs on tests thanks to these small mistakes.

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    Some thoughts:

    In addition to asking students to begin to think abstractly, algebra also asks them to do multiple calculations while applying concepts. So, perhaps a student can see the big picture but be fuzzy on the details.

    When learning to do both of these tasks (calculate while applying abstract concepts) it's easy to get tripped up --- especially if fractions and/or negative numbers are involved. So is it possible that she's having trouble doing both of these tasks at once?

    I teach algebra to my kids and am on kid #3 now. I've realized that what looks like a stupid mistake to the adult may really be a valid difficulty for the student. The student may not even be aware of the problem --- I can see it because I've learned how to. As an example, I get my kids to think in terms of numbers having two components: sign and value. Determine the sign first. Write it down. Now worry about the value. This is a very difficult method to apply consistently, because the mind wants to bundle it all (which leads to trouble). Slow it down, do things one step at a time, and you won't have to worry as much about missing the details.

    Also, one of my kids might get tripped up in the beginning of a lesson because it was easy to see the answer to 2x + 3 = 13. This led to sloppy work in the first problems in a section because the answer was obvious for all of them. Then, when things got harder, trouble started. He hadn't practiced the technique when the problems were easy and then got lost when they got harder. Maybe she didn't pay attention to the technique because the examples were easy. She could sort-of explain the concept for the easy problem, but I'd realize that she was seeing from the perspective of the arithmetic involved, and not seeing the abstract ideas.

    So I'd go over stuff again and force them to write things step by step, in logical order. After that, things got much better.

    Remember that kids make oddball excuses to avoid taking responsibility. Is your DD really, truly trying to save paper, or is she having trouble, and using small writing as a strategy for getting partial credit? Is her disorganization perhaps a sign of a fuzzy understanding of details? When an excuse is really lame or nonsensical, I assume that something else is going on.

    Finally, math books can make the problem worse. Is your DD using a woeful mainstream modern textbook? If it's full of color pictures and there are random distracting notes all over the margins, the answer is, "yes."



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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    One problem is that she insists on doing things in her head that she should NOT do in her head. Another is that she squeezes everything into tiny spaces to "save paper" and doesn't write her work down in a clear, organized, and sequential fashion.

    FWIW, all three of my kids experienced this issue when they started Algebra - silly mistakes, missing signs, not wanting to write down every step, not wanting to have to check work on a problem etc. Algebra was the place they finally saw and learned the importance of writing down all the steps in a calculation as well as writing it down in a way the teacher could read it. So, just my perspective, but it's a fairly normal thing for students to go through, and most students come out of Algebra understanding why you do these things. I tried to explain why you do these things to my kids when they first ran head-on into it, none of them wanted to hear what I had to say smile ... but losing points on tests helped them get the idea relatively quickly.

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    Finally, and to me the most concerningly, she also says that she is somewhat crunched for time.

    This is the one thing I might be concerned about - but it would really depend on the what and the why. Is she saying she doesn't want to write each step because she doesn't have time? And if so, does she really not have enough time? Is it in class, at home, what else is up etc. It will probably help to watch at home - how much time does working on her math problems take? If she's not struggling with concepts, I'm not sure I'd worry about time yet.

    Do you think your dd would be willing to let you sit with you while she does her homework, not watching over her, maybe just sitting at the same table, you're doing something else, where you'd have a chance to casually watch what's happening?

    In addition to the time issue, the thing I'd look for is - does she make the same types of mistakes (copying errors or switching sign errors etc) on the same problem when she rechecks it. I'm not saying makes the same errors as the first time, but makes errors again.

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    As some may remember, we have questioned this double-accelerated placement for DD. She has no passion for math and it's her least favorite class--and this is a track that puts her finishing calculus in 11th grade. Her cop-out option right now, unfortunately, would be to repeat last year. She has a solid B in the class due to Bs on tests thanks to these small mistakes.

    I wouldn't worry about a B in middle school in the first quarter. I read on your other post though that grades will count toward high school placement. I wonder if your dd is feeling stress about that? Also wonder if she asked to be placed in this class or if she's there because of someone else (parent or teacher) recommending it? I don't know what the answer is re where she should be, but if she feels like she's in a class she doesn't really like because someone else thinks she should be pushing herself... that can cause a lot of stress as well as tension in relationships, and that might not be worth the placement regardless of what benefit is gained from the class. If this placement has her finishing out calc in 11th grade and she's not really a kid who thinks she wants to go into math/science, then it's most likely not worth stressing anyone out over. OTOH, it's sometimes tough to know where you want to end up when you're still in 7th grade. Each of my kids seemed to be naturally directed in one direction by the time they were in middle school (math/science vs language arts etc)... but one of the three had a 180 degree turn-around once she was in high school in a program in the area she thought she very much wanted to continue in through college.

    Best wishes,

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    Is she using the math textbook "worksheet" pages or writing out the work on a lined notebook page? We've noticed that things go much more smoothly with the latter for DS. There is just no room to speak of on the worksheets.

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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    One problem is that she insists on doing things in her head that she should NOT do in her head. Another is that she squeezes everything into tiny spaces to "save paper" and doesn't write her work down in a clear, organized, and sequential fashion. Finally, and to me the most concerningly, she also says that she is somewhat crunched for time. Thoughts?

    I had very similar troubles when I was in school. Mental math was my strong suit and I felt slowed down by the task of writing it out. I always had mistakes and not because I didn't understand the math.

    My dad was a math teacher (not mine) and he applauded the use of mental math. He gave me a couple tips on showing my work.
    1. If I solved it in my head, write down and solve the inverse of the problem to check for errors. It's better than showing nothing.
    2. Take extra paper (if allowed!) and solve one problem per page. Seems like a huge waste but it gave me a clear "mental space" to deal with one problem at a time. Turn in all of the working sheets with the test. Stapled. Because every math teacher lost one or two of my extra sheets.
    3. Solve the hardest problem first, and work to the easiest. Often math tests have the easiest problems at the beginning. This is a time use strategy for feeling less stressed out about the amount of work left. If problems 1-5 are easily solved in my head, but problem 6 requires a huge amount of effort, then once the hard one is complete I won't feel as rushed to show my work for 1-5.

    I hope that helps! It really helped me. Now 20+ years later I still do mental math every day.

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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    One problem is that she insists on doing things in her head that she should NOT do in her head. Another is that she squeezes everything into tiny spaces to "save paper" and doesn't write her work down in a clear, organized, and sequential fashion. Finally, and to me the most concerningly, she also says that she is somewhat crunched for time. Thoughts?

    As some may remember, we have questioned this double-accelerated placement for DD. She has no passion for math and it's her least favorite class--and this is a track that puts her finishing calculus in 11th grade. Her cop-out option right now, unfortunately, would be to repeat last year. She has a solid B in the class due to Bs on tests thanks to these small mistakes.

    I could be reading a post about our DD - going through such a similar experience!! DD's anxiety has shot through the roof. I don't even know how the math teacher grades her math work - the answers are so teeny. DD will NOT use other paper to do her homework but insists on squeezing it all into these little blank spots under the problem. She is also not finishing her tests the day they are given but evidently, in her school, that is not unusual as even her big sister is working on it a bit the next day. DD also claims she is going blank when she takes the tests she is so stressed. DD says she HATES math to whomever listens, but unlike last year is doing better at understanding the work - it's just all the quizzes and tests have her grade hanging onto an A by a thread.

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    Quote
    When learning to do both of these tasks (calculate while applying abstract concepts) it's easy to get tripped up --- especially if fractions and/or negative numbers are involved. So is it possible that she's having trouble doing both of these tasks at once?

    Yes. It's a little odd because she's not the kid who gets facts wrong or does addition wrong typically...it hasn't historically been a problem. However, I remember seeing this pop up when difficulty ramped up last year. Then, however, as you may recall, she had some problems with concepts as well. Now we are seeing no concept problems (she says, "Now I get algebra"--seems like a maturation thing happened), but the details dribble away.

    The tiny writing in small spaces/not showing work has been a problem for YEARS. She had a teacher in 4th grade who didn't require them to show work. (Remember, she was in a dedicated gifted school then.) She loved this. It was a bad idea.

    Quote
    Also wonder if she asked to be placed in this class or if she's there because of someone else (parent or teacher) recommending it? I don't know what the answer is re where she should be, but if she feels like she's in a class she doesn't really like because someone else thinks she should be pushing herself... that can cause a lot of stress as well as tension in relationships, and that might not be worth the placement regardless of what benefit is gained from the class.

    Her 5th grade teacher was adamant that she be put in this track. We were less sure. She had to take a placement test, and her score was well above the minimum. She killed it on the state standardized math test for 7th graders last year (missed one problem). But I DO NOT care if she stays in this track and have suggested multiple times that she go back a track. She won't hear of it, not because she cares or likes math, but due to the social embarrassment factor. It's frustrating.


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