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    #233924 09/23/16 06:51 AM
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    Hello all, My son is eight years old and is doing well in third grade. He has some classic signs of Autism and ADHD. He is very smart and exceptionally verbal. Last year, he scored 129 on the Naglieri and had made such vast strides in Math and Reading that his school asked me if they could evaluate him for the gifted program. He scored a 126 on the woodcock Johnson and was found not to be in need of Gifted Support, but now they are going to do a full psychoeducational evaluation to determine if he has a disability that is masking his giftedness. I am a 2e student from way back when, and I know how hard it is to not have a place to belong, and have adults around me that didn't know what to do with me when I was having trouble. Even though I was in GATE, I ended up dropping out of school in my HS years. I'm afraid that his school is going to determine that he is ineligible for support either way and he is going to fall through that safety net. It terrifies me.
    We live in Pennsylvania where the cut-off for entry is 130 IQ. If Nolan had scored a 130 we would not be doing a complete evaluation. Throughout the eight years of his life, his father and I have avoided seeking a diagnosis for our son because he has not had a significant impairment. We think his creativity and intelligence has masked his difficulties. And his difficulties have masked his intelligence. What do we do to ensure that he gets support? We know he needs it. In first grade he had a teacher that didn't understand him. She forced him to stop flapping his arms and to sit still. He ended up pushing her away from him and getting suspended. In second grade, his teacher understood him, his individual needs and abilities. He went from scoring in the 50th percentile for reading to the 96th percentile in one year. And, he won the school-wide art contest. We've seen what a difference it makes for him to be allowed to flap his arms, stand and dance around, and take frequent breaks. And, in second grade, all students receive gifted enrichment in our district. So, this periods were all our son could talk about. "Finally someone was using Minecraft to teach us code! I've been saying this forever!"
    My question to this community is, how do I go about getting him the enrichment and support that he needs without sounding like a crazed and overbearing mother? Should I have him independently evaluated? How far will that really get him? Should I insist that he be retested with another test? Should I wait for the full assessment results? Has anyone else experienced this, and what was the outcome?

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    Welcome, Jeanette!

    Have you received the full test results from the tests which have been administered to date? You'll want to have copies of those in the records you'll maintain at home, ongoing.

    When is the school-administered psychoeducational evaluation scheduled to take place? You'll want copies of the complete results of that as well.

    If your child is 2e, Wrightslaw is the go-to resource for explaining disability and special education. Their book, From Emotions to Advocacy is an excellent guide.

    It is helpful to become familiar with these now, prior to a time when you may need to advocate to have your child's educational needs met.

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    You should strongly consider an independent assessment regarding the possibility of adhd or asd. Hopefully your insurance would cover this.

    Finding out about this, whether or not yet get good/actionable information on your son's level of giftedness, is still extremely important for you to understand his educational and developmental needs.

    Middle school and high school can be especially difficult times for kids handling issues like this.


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    126 is not average - it is a pretty optimal IQ. I assume it was the WJ cognitive they gave him not achievement? It would be worth seeing the subscores in case it is low WM and/or PS. If so a Wisc would allow a GAI to be used.u

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    I have a 2e child and we have gone private with the majority of her evaluations so far. In our situation, the school actually recommended that. I think it's only safe to stick with a school based eval if they have considerable experience with your 2e issues.

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    Just want to add that as I understand the law in PA, they cannot deny gifted services to any child with an IQ above 130, but they can at any time make exceptions for those with an IQ below 130.

    If a child has an exceptional talent at math or another area of interest or some areas tested test much higher than others or if there is overall very high academic achievement it is possible to still get a child into the gifted program in PA even without that 130.

    I did a lot of research into the PA laws when my son, who did score over 130, was excluded from gifted services due to behavior problems caused by his disability. I remember quite clearly it stated no school can make the cut off more stringent than an IQ of 130, but each district is free to set any standards below that, including cut offs of 120 or 125 for instance, allowing students with exceptional talents, etc.

    Even if they insist on the 130, you could point out that IQ scores have a standard error of measurement. If the range on your test based on that standard error includes 130 or above the highest score in the range could possibly be a more accurate score. So could the lowest. But a kid with 130 IQ will have a range that overlaps with your child's range on some tests. Both children could have the same potential, one just tested better that day than the other.

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    Welcome to the forums Jeanette - you'll find lots of wonderful advice here.

    As a mom to a 2e student, my recommendation is going to come from a bit of a sideways origin to what you're asking. Rather than think only about school and how you can help your ds have access to gifted services now, I think it's important to look at how a child with a 2e challenge is going to navigate life inside and outside of school, looking at the long term. If the school is offering an eval, I'd definitely let them do the eval - personally I feel like you can never have enough "data" when trying to understand what's going on with children who have challenges - whether or not they are 2e. As long as the evaluation isn't going to stress out your ds, and there's no potential that it might stand in the way of your being able to work with the district to get services (this can happen in some school districts in some situations)... then absolutely, agree to the school's eval.

    And...

    1) Be sure to ask everything that's going to be included in the eval. In most districts there's a form with a checklist of all possible things that are routinely included (cognitive, speech-language, OT etc) - and if there's anything that you think needs to be included and is left off, request (in writing) that it be included. (email is ok for "in writing").

    2) Get full copies of all of your ds' previous testing. Specifically ask for the reports with subtest scores - this is where you'll be able to see if averaging has impacted test scores... i.e., is one particular area of a test impacted by a challenge, whereas other areas are scoring significantly higher than, for instance, predicted by the 126 score.

    3) Consider a private eval as well. You have to be careful about some tests that can't be repeated within certain time intervals, and you also might want to wait until after the school has done their eval if you have reasonable expectations that the district will do a thorough eval. OTOH, it wouldn't hurt to network a bit now to find out what other people's experience has been with school evals: are they thorough, and are parents generally satisfied with them. Places you might be able to find info such as this are family pediatrician, local parent advocates group, parents you know etc.

    In my family's situation, the private evals were extremely helpful and really important in getting an accurate diagnosis, as well as putting together a plan for remediation and accommodation not only in the short term but the long term. We found three key differences between school evals and private evals: 1) the school is evaluating for academic function - what the child needs to be successful with school, whereas a private evaluator is looking at what a child needs to be successful in *life* - and there are differences here, even with a child as young as 8 years old. 2) the school is looking at how to set and reach goals now, whereas a good private eval will give you a long-term look at what you as parents and your child will need over a longer span of time. 3) A private evaluator will be able to help you navigate understanding what services you can reasonably expect school to provide vs what services your child might need that the school district won't provide, and for those a private evaluator can usually give recommendations for local providers.

    Wherever you get the evaluation, having a global evaluation - that looks at the totality of how your child is functioning, and doesn't start with an end-goal in mind (i.e.: we think the child has ADHD, therefore we will look only at ADHD) is really important (note - I'm just a parent, so take what I say with that in mind). Our ds also exhibited some signs that were thought to look like ASD and ADHD when he was around the same age as your ds - and at other ages too smile His 2nd grade teacher was convinced he had ADHD, but his first neuropsych eval revealed something *none* of the adults in his life expected (teachers, parents, previous counselor)... DCD and dysgraphia. After initial remediation, we also discovered an expressive language disorder. Our neuropsych has a chart that shows how quite a few of the symptoms and behaviors associated with DCD, ADHD and ASD overlap - and it's only through an experienced professional and a thorough eval that you can really conclude what's up with any particular child.

    Last piece of advice - when a child has a challenge, one set of testing at one point in time isn't going to be a defining test that will give you everything you'll ever need to know. Understanding of how best to remediate/accommodate can and most likely will change as your child grows - and that's ok! Don't let that stop you from an evaluation now, though. The results you get may seem confusing, but having data is a good thing. Moving forward is a good thing. Getting an evaluation and not being afraid of getting a diagnosis is a good thing.

    I have more to say, particularly re advocating, but no time to write more at the moment - good luck as you move forward and let us know if you have more questions. Also let us know how things go!

    Best wishes,

    polarbear


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