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Anyone really satisfied with what they have for dysgraphia AT? DS8 has had accommodations (oral answers, less copying), HWT remediation and some typing but no AT. Any thoughts?

Isn't the typing AT? DS is going into 4th grade and they didn't seem to have any sort of plan (plus they were trying to get rid of the handwriting remediation) so I requested an AT eval. So an "AT team" came in and they are working on it but so far they have just looked at speech to text.

DD11 had a very extensive AT eval in 2nd grade that led to a detailed report, using an iPad throughout her school day and a seemingly endless series of apps. She uses CoWriter a lot - it allows her to move between voice to text and typing as needed. She has had years of OT, the last 2 focusing on cursive in case that worked better. She can now write a very simple note, ie say thanks or happy birthday, but no way would handwriting work for general school work. She had an app that allowed her to photograph a math work sheet and use her finger rather than a pencil to write answers but now prefers a pencil and paper. She also uses text to voice a lot when doing internet research as well as load of audio books. Lots and lots of accommodations and apps starting in 3rd grade when she was placed OOD in spec Ed school. We still have the AT specialist as a member of the team consulting about 10 hours a year. Ask specific questions and I'll try to answer.

Did the cursive help? Private OT now wants to try that w/ DS because he doesn't seem to grasp putting proper spacing between letters and words. But DS hates it and prefers printing, even though he also hates printing. I don't know if it's worth trying harder with it or not.

I started asking about cursive in 1st grade after reading that some dysgraphic kids find it easier. The OT at our public just said "Yes some kids do find it easier" but refused to try it. After a year at the spec Ed school the OT there suggested trying it. It has been a slow process - using Handwriting Without Tears Cursive (which DD referred to as "Handwriting Most Definitely WITH Tears" ). DD basically uses it to sign her name. I'm not sure it was worth all the effort but I think DD's printing improved along the way. Could be developmental, could be a cumulative effect of all the OT, could be something about learning cursive. I don't know.

I think the most effective is voice to text but she gets frustrated at times and goes back to typing. The built in voice to text on iPad 2 and higher works well with her voice BUT she needs to be connected to wifi for it to work. AT consultant failed to tell us that and didn't include cellular in the description of which machine to buy so DD can't use it on the bus, in the car or anywhere she doesn't have wifi. Not happy about that and not quite ready to buy yet another iPad just yet. Surprisingly she sometimes insists on hand writing even though it is slow, tedious and illegible. She used to refuse to write by hand because it hurt so much now we have to implement strategies to insist she uses something else instead. Maybe all the OT handwriting work strengthened her muscles? Again, who knows...

In 4th grade I brought up giving up on handwriting altogether and DD vetoed the idea. She said she knew there might be times she didn't have access to technology and wanted to be sure she could write a note if necessary. Then she looked me in the eye and said "Mom you can't run away from your problems. You do understand that - right?" Now that she can write a brief note all have agreed the diminishing return means her time can be better spent on other things.

I had a longer response that was lost.

Here's the very basic/I'm tired version

He's learning to type at school but not using it for other subjects.

These are my questions:

Can he use an iPad to turn a standard short answer style worksheet into a document he can fill with typing or speech to text?

What about an app to help organize a short essay?

He'd like to work independently in an advanced science (biology) book. Are there any good options available on iPad?

What all needs wifi? I've heard it is iffy at the school.

You need a proper AT eval that will check out what he needs and make personalized recommendations. DD's was 20 something pages long and then there was a follow up eval that was more than 10 pages just on the best way for her to learn to type, what kind of keyboard she would need, etc. And even with all of that it has been an ongoing process constantly updating apps and consulting with the AT specialist. I am very non technical so I don't understand all of it.

Learning to keyboard has been a process. The same OT who refused to introduce cursive also refused to introduce keyboarding because she felt "it's not developmentally appropriate before 5th grade." A very nice woman who Just. Didn't. Get. It. When DD started at the spec Ed school I argued that this OT's positions as well as their delay in doing the AT eval and implementing its recommendations cost DD 2 years of keyboarding supports so she was entitled to compemsatory services. The district didn't even argue - they gave us 3 1/2 hours of OT a week split between handwriting and keyboarding. That stayed in effect for 3 years before we agree to drop down to 2 1/2 hours a week for 6th grade.

Yes - all of her worksheets can be done on the iPad. She chooses to do some by hand but it's not necessary.

I assume you are talking about a graphic organizer. Yes she uses them. At this point she prefers not to but they are part of her program.

In 3rd grade DD was attending an 8th grade reading comprehension group and in 4th grade she started doing HS literature 1-1. It took months and months for the school to get their hands on the audio version of the 8th grade text. The publisher had it available but I think the school, the district and the publisher were all confused about what she needed. Now they just load the books she needs through audibles dot com and the teacher adapts a curriculum on the book to whatever DD needs. It's a spec Ed school so they get it and the advanced work being done is 1-1 literature so your mileage may differ. Where there's a will there's a way. Where there's no will the most simple things can seem impossible.

For 6th grade DD will be attending the TAG program in district one day a week so we will get our first chance to see how this works in a regular mainstream (of sorts) classroom. Days before the school year starts and there has been no decision on where the program will meet this year. When I asked about wifi for DD's apps I was told at the worst they would purchase a router and plug it in for her to use. As I said above I am totally non technical so I have no idea how it works.

Not everything has to be on the iPad. She uses desk top computers as well. And she can Dropbox or email from her iPad to the teacher's computer if she needs to. They tell me she's totally independent on her AT now which I find difficult to believe. It's a spec Ed school and the teachers are young and into all the latest technology so I assume it all happens pretty organically. TAG will be the real test to see where the holes are what needs to get tweeked.

KJP, I'm short on time and tired too.. but here are a few notes for you:


Yes. My ds did this for several years; I suspect his technology on his iPad may be out-of-date. If you google "dysgraphic apps for iPad" you should be able to find current lists of suggested apps.


My ds was using a laptop in elementary school, but I think the software he used for this has been adapted for the iPad - the name of the software was "Kidspiration" ("Inspiration" for the version older kids/teens/adults used). This is software that lets you brainstorm, create connections via graphic organizer, then transform those connected ideas into an outline, from which you can build your paragraphs.


Are you just looking for an audio version of the book, or something more. In general, we found that the pictures/figures in some science textbooks weren't all that great in e-format, but again, things may be much better now. DS hasn't used science books online during the past two years, but he has online versions of math and history books and they are all ok - however he either couldn't get them on his iPad or found issues with them on his iPad and usually only used them online when he was using a computer.

Does your ds have a subscription to learning ally? I *think* you can download their books to iPads... but my kids don't tend to do that so I'm not 100% certain. I can check though, once I'm wider awake

Anything that's pulling data across the internet. It really depends on the app an what you're using it for.

A few other notes:

It would be a good idea to put together a plan (even if it's only in your head, not the school's vision) of how to transfer you ds from oral responses to keyboarded responses. Oral response works great at first, but it's not practical long-term.

My ds learned cursive in school, and the one thing that was great about it was that his handwriting was much more legible when he wrote in cursive. One huge downside to that was that since he could write neatly with cursive, the school staff refused to believe he was dysgraphic. It's important to remember that dysgraphia isn't the same thing as illegible handwriting or slow handwriting - it's a challenge with a brain-hand connection that limits the development of automaticity of handwriting. All the things that impact a child who's dysgraphic when they are printing will still impact them when they're writing cursive. They will still be forming letters by relearning how to draw them each time they write them, they will still be using all of their working memory for writing the letter vs focusing on spelling or grammar or punctuation, and most importantly, no working memory left over to put into developing the student's ideas. My ds, who had that beautiful cursive handwriting in 5th grade, no longer remembers how to write in cursive.

Re AT in general - the "best" or "right" AT for any one individual at any one point in time - is just that, the best solution for one person. You can expect AT needs to change over time (as well as expecting technology to change).

Best wishes,

polarbear

Thanks so much for the thoughtful responses. Here is more about our situation.

His dysgraphia is made more challenging by hypermobile joints in his wrists and hands. For example, when his palm is up he can just about bend his wrist up and over to fold his fingers and palm to rest along the inside of his forearm.

His teachers have been teaching keyboarding and handwriting as separate subjects. He struggles with typing too. He has a lot trouble making his fingers move independently so proper typing is incredibly frustrating. His neuropsych report recommended we let him develop his own technique. His teachers are fine with this approach but they don't require he type anything but the typing exercises. He also learns PowerPoint so some typing is used in that. At this point typing is still a bottleneck just one with a neater product.

I should mention he and his teachers seem happy with their oral answer arrangement, at least they were for second grade. It is me who thinks he should be developing an independent way. DH thinks we should just let him be and see where he's at in maybe sixth grade.

What type of professional does an AT evaluation? We haven't accessed the public school for any services. He attends a private school. His years of OT/PT were done privately as healthcare (although the OT did his sessions at his school and made recs. to his teachers). Would it be available through a children's hospital? I could see about getting a referral.

I think speech to text is going to be his best bet. Oral expression on the WIAT was in line with his verbal scores on the IQ portion. In general his hands are not his friends. He hates zippers, snaps, buttons, utensils and laces.

On cursive - we'll see. The school teaches it if the kid/parent wants the kid to learn it. DS is anti-cursive right now.

On the kid/school wifi - I think they all have problems at this school. I'll find out from the teachers.

Another consideration is that he'll be using Michael Clay Thompson's language arts Island level this year and it seemed light on writing.

Personally I don't think the let him go on his own and see where he is in 6th grade approach is a great idea. DD has been explicitly taught everything and it has been a long, arduous process to get where she is. Her comprehension is sky high but she totally lacks automaticity. Things that come naturally to other kids just don't happen that way for her. I think this is a processing issue so probably common in dysgraphic kids. We had a debate as to the best way to teach her to type (actually 'keyboard' as typing apparently implies using a formal home row/ 10 fingers approach...) and ended up encouraging her to use a home row system but still allowing her to do what worked best for her. Her visual processing was so bad they had to start with training her to scan the keyboard to find the correct letter. When she started I believe it could take almost a full minute to locate a particular letter key. She never would have become functional left to her own devices. But that's my DD - your kid could be a totally different story.

And one point I left out of the cursive discussion - it is sometimes easier because the pencil doesn't leave the page so spacing is less of an issue. Some dysgraphic kids eventually develop their own style of handwriting that's not quite printing, not quite script. I think that may be where DD is now which is why it has become easier for her to write short notes that are at least somewhat legible.

We started with oral responses, *no* copying and scribing. It was ok in 2nd grade when the work load was lower (and no one at the public really had any idea what to do with such an outside the box kid). However it is much better to allow them to move towards independence. At least with my DD it takes her so much longer to learn to do these things that we need to have a plan in place for several years in order for her to function as needed at higher grade levels. In other words working in 3rd and 4th grade on these skills allowed her to have a great year in 5th. 6th grade will be a year to see where she is and what needs to be added or changed so she will be able to function as well as possible in 7th.

DD's school implements things across the board. In other words her OT time may occur during computer lab or a writing block so the skills aren't developed in a vacuum. Just like its harder for her to learn these skills it's also harder for her to transfer them. Back to that lack of automaticity thing again...

Oh and one of the first things AT wise that DD learned to do independently was PowerPoint. Great entree that made her oh so much more comfortable with it all. She also does/did spelling through an app called Spelling City. She said the app that allowed her to photograph and write on worksheets using the iPad was called snap something - don't remember the exact name.

AT specialist (I believe) can come from an OT or spec Ed background. Check with your local university. Also your school district can direct you even if you are in a private.

I'm glad Polarbear and Spaghetti weighed in - their kids are older and they have many years of practical experience. Hopefully DeeDee will wander by too. Such great resources on this board!

I bought SnapType Pro for my phone and showed DS. He tried it on a worksheet and was SO excited. He really wants an iPad for school now.

Yup, got one of those. Can touch fingernails to elbows, it's quite disturbing. It's also dang hard to find velcro shoes in size 7

We're lucky in that he seems to be OK with typing, and by age 12 has developed some pretty decent speed via playing Minecraft and programming (though he definitely isn't using proper form). However, his dyslexic (and probably dysgraphic) sister (9) needs to bypass typing a lot more, and uses a combo of voice recognition and word prediction, which sounds more like what you need.

Like others, I definitely don't recommend waiting. The sooner AT becomes normal and natural for him, his classmates and his teachers, the better. They don't get less self-conscious as they get closer to middle school. It's also nice to have their technology use grow naturally along with their writing demands. In our experience, if it's always available, and easy to access, and the other kids are used to it being used, then it gets used with ever-increasing frequency. For DS, the laptop was occasional go-to-the-side-table-to-type for big projects in grade 3, evolving to carried to every class and used for every written word by the time he started grade 6.

That said, if typing doesn't solve the problem, skip it and move right on to voice recognition and word prediction. The latter is a good interim/ cross-over step, as voice to text takes time and practice, and it can be tough to get good accuracy with children's high-pitched voices. Also, word prediction is useful when the child just needs to write a sentence or two, and/ or it isn't convenient/ comfortable for them to find a place where they can dictate without disturbing/ being disturbed.

I think I'm just going to go ahead and get him an iPad. He wants to work on it at home for a while then take it to school once he knows how to use it for school work.

We'll see how that goes and talk to his doctor about a referral for an AT evaluation if it doesn't work.

And Keen's bungee lace sneakers are a big hit with him. They're currently on sale too.

For shoes, I personally use Hickies (I have the boring black ones, but you can get all kinds of cool colors) on the shoes I wear every day and I love them. They do gradually wear out and break, and occasionally one comes undone, but I love not having to mess around with tying my shoes all the time (I can't seem to tie them so they don't come undone several times a day). Do look at alternative lacing patterns if they are too tight instead of immediately deciding they are no good. Mine are laced in two overlapping loops of two with only the very bottom one being a single loop. Two non-overlapping loops would be even looser.