Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 154 guests, and 11 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    Word_Nerd93, jenjunpr, calicocat, Heidi_Hunter, Dilore
    11,421 Registered Users
    April
    S M T W T F S
    1 2 3 4 5 6
    7 8 9 10 11 12 13
    14 15 16 17 18 19 20
    21 22 23 24 25 26 27
    28 29 30
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Page 5 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,245
    Likes: 1
    I
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    I
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,245
    Likes: 1
    Originally Posted by Tigerle
    I don't get how "siphoning off" the percentage of the student population that scores in both the 98th percentile on the cogat and the 95th percentile in achievement can in any noticeable way affect the rest of the student population, or how distributing them across the district could in any way make a noticeable difference in classroom diversity.
    Agreed. Until recently, even distribution of students in public school classrooms was said to be fair to the public school teachers who were rated/evaluated in part on a comparison with other teachers, of overall classroom achievement test scores.

    Therefore to be "fair to teachers", if 20 students were to be distributed among 4 teachers, one might anticipate the pupils to be distributed this way (by inbound ranking of the pupils' achievement test scores):
    Teacher W is assigned pupils 1 & 20, 5 & 16, 9
    Teacher X is assigned pupils 2 & 19, 6 & 15, 10
    Teacher Y is assigned pupils 3 & 18, 7 & 14, 11
    Teacher Z is assigned pupils 4 & 17, 8 & 13, 12
    working through the highest and lowest student rankings toward the middle.

    More recently, public school teachers are not only rated/ranked/evaluated on overall classroom scores, but by scores by demographic... specifically by closing the achievement gap and/or excellence gap. This entails stagnating the top students so that the lower students are making comparatively greater gains.

    I find this practice to be unconscionable. Again, I'll contrast the current "equal outcomes" educational goals of American public schools with the acknowledgement of exceptional athletic talent... and the need to nurture it... which we see at the Olympics.

    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,048
    Likes: 1
    A
    aeh Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,048
    Likes: 1
    And an additional twist is teacher evaluations that are based on student growth percentiles, which encourage teachers to minimize both high achievers--who have no headroom in the assessments left for growth, and low achievers--who often struggle to make gains, and focus instead on marginally low achievers, who have the most potential for ordinal advancement.


    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
    Joined: Jul 2016
    Posts: 18
    L
    Junior Member
    OP Offline
    Junior Member
    L
    Joined: Jul 2016
    Posts: 18
    Well said Tigerle and Indigo. I've always said if I had a choice, I would rather have a kid who is gifted in athletics but with average intelligence than the other way around, my life would be soooo much easier then! I think this societal preference for brawn over brain comes from the top down, starting with our elite colleges that give athletes a 5 to 1 preference over a regular high IQ admit.

    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 848
    C
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 848
    Originally Posted by Flyingmouse
    I agree with much of what was already been said, but there are still issues with Seattle's gifted program. My child attends a gifted-only elementary school that contains 700+ kids, but only two African-American students. His classes are full of kids with affluent and well-educated parents. Other areas of Seattle have elementary schools with few Caucasian or Asian students and almost every kid qualifying for free and reduced price lunch. So, when people look at our program, they become angry because it siphons out the kids from general education classrooms. Gen ed families aren't happy with being left behind because many of the high achievers and affluent students with involved parents leave to join HCC.

    I would agree that, assuming the population is not 99.9(or more) white, it would seem likely that some gifted children of color are being missed in the selection process or that parents for some reason are choosing not to send them there. I'd be looking at what could be done re: those factors before I shut down a program that was otherwise successful. If teacher recommendations are part of the criteria, for example, then racial bias might be at play in who the teachers think is likely to be gifted.

    Joined: Oct 2015
    Posts: 228
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Oct 2015
    Posts: 228
    Another school district ended "gifted and talented" program

    http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/opinion/oped/bs-ed-bcps-gifted-20160810-story.html

    Joined: Jul 2016
    Posts: 18
    L
    Junior Member
    OP Offline
    Junior Member
    L
    Joined: Jul 2016
    Posts: 18
    Depressing. I think the end result here is more and more parents of gifted children will opt out and homeschool, especially at the K-8 level. Homeschoolers have so many more tools at their disposal now with the advent of the internet. We homeschooled for a couple of years and I could not believe the number of families in our area who homeschool, in a district that constantly touts its "award winning" schools. Many are children of highly educated professionals in the STEM field. Public schools will increasingly become the domain of the average and below average.

    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 848
    C
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    C
    Joined: Sep 2013
    Posts: 848
    I agree. People who know there are vast differences in how individual children learn and what can happen when learning is then matched to those specific children, who have the means (and family setup) to homeschool are doing so. I see that building into a group of highly capable children, later adults, who have every advantage vs. those who got the vanilla version of education.

    It's not good from a societal standpoint, imo.

    Joined: Oct 2015
    Posts: 228
    A
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Oct 2015
    Posts: 228
    We still have the gifted program in our school district. I heard good things about it but not sure if it is even accelerated enough for my DYS7. Since the gifted program won't start until 3rd grade and I have not been able to successfully advocating for subject acceleration with the district (in-class differentiation did not work for 1st grade), we are hiring a tutor and going to weekend gifted programs at NU CTD. We cannot afford homeschool so this is our current solution. We are fortunate that we are able to do these extra things but think about the families who cannot afford to pay for outside help frown

    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,245
    Likes: 1
    I
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    I
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,245
    Likes: 1
    Originally Posted by ConnectingDots
    People who know there are vast differences in how individual children learn and what can happen when learning is then matched to those specific children, who have the means (and family setup) to homeschool are doing so. I see that building into a group of highly capable children, later adults, who have every advantage vs. those who got the vanilla version of education.
    Homeschooling is not a status symbol of wealth. Some people make huge sacrifices to homeschool, in some cases this may include schooling during evening hours and on weekends, cooperatively "babysitting" other families' children, etc.

    Meanwhile these people continue to fund the "vanilla version of education" which is provided free, from kindergarten through high school graduation (12th grade), through public schools in the USA.

    Families with children attending private, independent, or parochial schools also continue to pay for public schools.

    Quote
    It's not good from a societal standpoint, imo.
    If you mean that allowing people to leave public schools in order to homeschool is not good for society, I strongly disagree. Keeping homeschooling as a legal option in the USA is key. Homeschooling demonstrates that children can learn well and be successful, often without having their lessons orchestrated by a highly credentialed professional. Homeschooling often raises the bar, as do private, independent, and parochial schools. If government had the monopoly on education, by eliminating other alternatives to public schools, this would considerably restrict freedom, strike at the the role of the family as the key building block of society, challenge the authority of parents, and restrain intellectual curiosity (by making "plain vanilla" the only educational option).

    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,245
    Likes: 1
    I
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    I
    Joined: Apr 2013
    Posts: 5,245
    Likes: 1
    Originally Posted by ajinlove
    We are fortunate that we are able to do these extra things but think about the families who cannot afford to pay for outside help frown
    Many without financial wealth may still possess an indomitable spirit. There is always the public library, free local in-person events and workshops, and many free or reasonably priced online options which can be cobbled together for great educational experiences.

    Page 5 of 6 1 2 3 4 5 6

    Moderated by  M-Moderator 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Jo Boaler and Gifted Students
    by thx1138 - 04/12/24 02:37 PM
    For those interested in astronomy, eclipses...
    by indigo - 04/08/24 12:40 PM
    Posting IQ test results/Intepretrati
    on of them

    by Chaya - 04/05/24 07:58 PM
    Seattle Public Schools shuts down gifted program
    by Eagle Mum - 04/05/24 02:18 PM
    Testing with accommodations
    by blackcat - 04/02/24 09:08 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5