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    Joined: Jul 2016
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    CSaw Offline OP
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    Hello! Our grandson (GS?) has just turned 4. He's reading and loves anything to do with numbers, patterns, puzzles. He's taught himself to write both numbers and the alphabet, and some words. Loves building with Legos. Carries on conversations that leave us struggling to catch up! We haven't had him tested yet.

    My question concerns potty training. He has decided that he doesn't "like" having a bowel movement, so he won't. He holds it until I don't know why he doesn't feel sick. And then will sit on the toilet forever, not do anything, go play and then GO in his underpants. We've tried rewards, time outs, withholding toys, you name it. Even telling him that he can't go to school if he can't go to the bathroom. He tells us then that he doesn't want to go to school. So that doesn't work. Other than this he is such a bright, happy, loving child. It's very frustrating. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks!

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    Welcome!

    You may wish to search the forums for "encopresis". Here is an example of one old thread on the subject.

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    Originally Posted by CSaw
    My question concerns potty training. He has decided that he doesn't "like" having a bowel movement, so he won't. He holds it until I don't know why he doesn't feel sick. And then will sit on the toilet forever, not do anything, go play and then GO in his underpants. We've tried rewards, time outs, withholding toys, you name it. Even telling him that he can't go to school if he can't go to the bathroom. He tells us then that he doesn't want to go to school. So that doesn't work. Other than this he is such a bright, happy, loving child. It's very frustrating. Does anyone have any suggestions? Thanks!
    Hi CSaw, I have no idea if this is more common with gifted kids but at the time, our DS5 decided that he wasn't going to toilet train until his 4th birthday. It was really strange, as nothing worked with him either until he decided it was time. Apparently there was absolutely nothing wrong with him (other than a serious stubborn streak!) because as soon as he decided he was ready, he started using the toilet and only had one or two accidents thereafter. Our boys can both be fiercely independent and have always wanted some degree of control over their own lives (around that age, our DS6 couldn't understand why we got to make the rules and he had to follow them). So maybe it could be related to control over his own body?

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    You need to see a doctor. He may be in control now but please don't risk him damaging his bowel - encopresis is a nightmare.

    I have however met people whose kids wouldn't move their bowels without a nappy at that age. If you google it you should find a progression plan for training toilet use. I think step one is ask for a pullup and go to the bathroom or toilet room.

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    aeh Offline
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    Welcome!

    Perhaps you could clarify whether he retains bowel movements in general, or if he is reluctant to have bowel movements on the toilet, as those are two separate issues.

    Just turned four is not too old to be using a pull-up for bowel movements. (There's no rule that says everyone has to be in underwear day and night at any particular age!) If he isn't comfortable with the toilet yet, I wouldn't push it to the point of retaining his bowel movements for excessive periods of time, nor do I view it as worthy of punishment if he soils himself because he doesn't like the toilet. Keep in mind that using a toilet is not a physically intuitive posture. (In fact, quite large portions of the world outside of North America and Europe find our sit-toilets rather peculiar and unsanitary.) He clearly is perfectly capable of using a toilet, but uncomfortable with this particular toileting convention.

    The straightforward solution would appear to be to put him back in pull-ups for defecating. He still has time to get used to toilets.


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    Hello and Welcome!

    My DD 7 (Highly gifted) potty trained at 3 and we are in the process of potty training my younger DD3.6(untested). My children have generally potty trained later than most of our family/friends kids. Like your GS, DD3 has taught herself to write the alphabet and loves puzzles. She doesn't have a problem urinating in the potty but we've noticed that she is not comfortable having a bowel movement in the potty. I've put her in pull ups the past couple of days because we believe she's been holding her bowel movements. She is also in pull ups at night.

    I second aeh's question of whether your GS is holding his movements in general or specifically because he doesn't like the potty. If he's holding his movements in general, I would speak to your doctor. If it is potty related I would continue to encourage him to urinate in the potty and keep pull ups on for bowel movements.

    Anecdotally, I have a friend whose little boy didn't go to the potty for bowel movements until just before he started kindergarten, and in the end everything worked out fine.

    Is your GS able to articulate why he doesn't like having a bowel movement? Is he experiencing pain or is he uncomfortable? We are pretty open with our kids in terms of talking about bathroom issues and my DD7 is very comfortable talking to us if she's having difficulty. If your GS is not comfortable I would follow his lead. If he's in pain or generally avoiding bowel movements I would speak to his doctor.

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    We had issues with our older two. Our youngest trained late, but we sent her to a different day care than her older sisters - one that did not insist on being trained to move up to the preschool class - so we had a more relaxed approach with her (and she trained quickly when she did train).

    Eldest refused to use the potty for bowel movements and rewards did not work. We solved that one by telling her she could not watch any kid shows or videos until she was trained. We did not cut off her TV viewing (my kids watch a lot of TV). We just told her she could only watch CNN or CNBC. She trained quickly after that.

    Middle kid just did not care about the potty at all. She would hold it in all day at day care, then could hold it no more (at about 3.5 years). She would wet herself, with pants and socks soaked. We'd ask if she wet herself, she would reply "No" and walk away as if nothing had happened - she did not care. Promises of rewards or threats (such as withholding TV) did not help.

    She finally came around and stopped wetting herself, but would not cooperate with bowel movements. Right before she turned four, and a week before she was going to her older sister's school where potty training was expected, we were on vacation. I told her they would kick her out of school and leave her sitting on the curb if she didn't use the potty. She finally did use it. Maybe it was the threat, but DH swears it was traveling to another country (we were in Canada), so not sure what clicked.

    He will probably come around soon. Could be a control thing or a kid who just doesn't care. Middle kid (18 years old) still says she aspires to make a lot of money, retire early and sit on the couch watching TV,with mini-fridge beside the couch - and she'll wear a diaper so she doesn't need to get up.

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    Definitely go see a doctor. My DS had a brief stint with resisting BMs when we initiated potty training. He wasn't quite ready to begin at that time.

    A week of PEG in a glass of water and a more relaxed attitude let the entire issue fade away. In Canada, the Canadian Pediatric Society has a good position statement on toilet learning:

    http://www.cps.ca/documents/position/toilet-learning

    Ultimately, what induced DS to use the toilet for BMs was an incentive -- something he chose that was highly motivating. I bought it and put it on a visible high shelf next to the entrance to the bathroom. DS knew it was his for the taking whenever he felt ready to use the toilet and could use it consistently for a week, and I didn't mention toileting once until he initiated the conversation a week or so later. 7 days later, the prize was his.

    Note that the incentives most children choose might not be useful currency with a gifted child.


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    CSaw Offline OP
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    Thanks for your replies. Not a medical problem. A stubborn, control problem. It helps to know that others have had similar situations. I'll share this with his parents of course. We'll keep on working at it. This too, shall pass. (pun intended)

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    HJA Offline
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    Our DS5 potty trained at around 31/2. We thought it was a bit late, but after making a potty available (an on the floor potty as opposed to a toilet with a seat) we just followed his lead. Once he decided to start trying the whole process was relatively quick and painless. However, with respect to bowel movements, he did okay when he transitioned from the on-the-floor potty to the toilet with a kid's toilet seat but then had a really hard time transitioning from a child toilet seat to just a plain old toilet seat. This was never a problem at home but it was a problem when we were out. We talked to him a lot about it and never punished him. It turns out that he was afraid of doing his business on an unadorned toilet seat because of stability problems and fear of falling in. To start with, we put a stool under his feet so that he could feel some stability from it and have something to push his feet against. And, although we never punished him for failing to do his business without a child's seat on the toilet, we did give him a choice of a "prize" for doing it without for a week. He selected a "talking telescope" as his prize, from which he has learned many wonderful facts about planets and animals. He had just started junior kindergarten at the time and we wanted to give him a little extra incentive to be comfortable on the toilet because we were afraid he would start holding in it while he was at school. He also eats a lot of fruit and fibre, so he has thankfully never had a problem with constipation from a food-intake point of view. He now 5 1/2 and has never had any problems since that first little confidence issue. In fact, some people may recall an earlier post of mine in which I confess to his particular affinity for the ugly blue toilet in our house on which he conquered his fears! LOL!!!

    I obviously don't know your grandson, but I wonder if there isn't some kind of fear or other concern that is contributing to his control issues. If it is not a fear issue, could it be a food issue? I echo the suggestion of other posters to consult with a medical professional even if it is just to firmly count out any physiological concerns or maybe even to make a change in diet that might help.

    Best of luck.

    Last edited by HJA; 07/15/16 10:36 AM.
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