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    #231130 05/25/16 06:42 AM
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    Piggy-backing on the Fish Oil thread...

    Does anyone love their multivitamin?

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    Yes. After over 15 years of working this issue, for the past couple of years I have been sticking with "Source of Life Multi-Vitamin & Mineral", by Nature's Plus. I take the kind with iron, since my experience has been that whenever I'm not taking supplemental iron, over time I slowly become anemic. They also have the same multi without iron.

    They sell both kinds in two sizes, which I would characterize as reasonably sized, and horse pill (respectively.) To get the full daily dose, you take six reasonable ones or three horse pills. I do best on about 2/3 of the full dose; taking more doesn't seem to make a difference, but when I take less I notice a drop in my energy level after about two days. I'm a small person, about 125 lbs. A larger person would probably benefit from the full dose.

    Because I eat a completely plant-based diet, many multivitamins are off my list. This one seems to have a lot of what I need.

    BTW, I don't take fish oil, but algae-oil Omega-3 supplementation helps me, especially with keeping dry eye symptoms at bay. It's hard to find a purely plant-based version that isn't in cornstarch-based gel caps, though. I'm allergic to corn and ingesting corn products regularly will damage my ability to absorb nutrients. There are a couple of brands that use potato starch-based gelcaps, but they are hard to find. When I can't find them I raise my level of Alpha-Lipoic Acid supplementation and that seems to help. I also eat flaxseed regularly, in food.


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    After obsessing for a while on the ancestral health movement (paleo, primal, PHD, nurturing traditions etc,) I have come away with this for our family:
    The record for artificial water soluble vitamins is poor (with the exception of vitamin C in case of actual deficiency) and it is probably best, and also probably sufficient to cover water soluble vitamin needs by eating LOTS of fresh fruits and vegetables (not necessarily raw, certainly not in the case of vegetables, unless lactofermented, but prepared from scratch).
    It's different for fat soluble vitamins and nutrients, because most people do not eat enough high vitamin animal fats (eggs, fish, shellfish, butter, liver, all non-muscle meats) any more. So we supplement with high vitamin butter oil/CLO capsules from green pastures for A, D, E and K and vitamin D and K2 drops by Thorne (also occasionally phosphatidylcholine, not a vitamin, but probably essential in our family - one kid being born with spina bifida means there must be some deficiency somewhere in that pathway).
    I am told that the vitamin D content in the Thorne product is not really high enough in relation to the K2 so I am hoping that there is enough to offset that in the green pasture capsules and in the animal fat we are eating.
    These are a concentrated natural product (or at least that's what it.says on the tin), not artificial vitamins, so I hope bioavailability is best that way.
    YMMV if you avoid animal products completely.
    It is easier to supplement with minerals, since the body is used to sources such as water and dirt, it doesn't have to come from actual food the way vitamins should.

    Last edited by Tigerle; 05/28/16 11:49 PM.
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    Supplementing with vitamins can increase cancer risk, so be cautious. Fat-soluble vitamins are especially risky because they are stored in the adipose tissue (fat cells) of your body. Water-soluble vitamins tend to be excreted in urine.

    https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/vitamins-and-cancer-risk/
    http://www.coloradocancerblogs.org/dietary-supplements-shown-to-increase-cancer-risk/

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    Having answered the initial question, perhaps I should add that I take vitamins and other supplements under the watchful eye of several docs, and with periodic blood tests for Vit. D. My plant-based diet works for me but leaves potential deficits so my multi is one designed for vegetarians. My supplementation regime partially addresses several personal health challenges. I'm quite conservative about intake of fat-soluble vitamins.


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    Originally Posted by Flyingmouse
    Supplementing with vitamins can increase cancer risk, so be cautious. Fat-soluble vitamins are especially risky because they are stored in the adipose tissue (fat cells) of your body. Water-soluble vitamins tend to be excreted in urine.

    https://www.sciencebasedmedicine.org/vitamins-and-cancer-risk/
    http://www.coloradocancerblogs.org/dietary-supplements-shown-to-increase-cancer-risk/


    Not that I want to downplay the cancer risks, but it is important to note that the people in these studies will have taken artificial vitamins, not vitamins from natural sources. Also, fat soluble vitamins (A D E K) need to be balanced against each other, just increasing one without increasing the others is certainly harmful.
    Really, it's perfect if you take it all in with food and sunlight, but we do not live that kind of lifestyle any more. And if you eat a completely plant based diet like the PP, there's probably no way around artificial supplements anyway.

    Edited to add that if you feel like seriously geeking out on this, I recommend starting with this page:
    http://perfecthealthdiet.com/recommended-supplements/

    Last edited by Tigerle; 05/30/16 02:28 AM.
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    As a scientist, I am somewhat skeptical of many claims related to multivitamins and natural supplements. They are not well-regulated and recent studies have shown that many supplements do not even contain the ingredients listed in the packaging. If you are nutritionally deficient, you are more likely to improve your health by consuming foods that contain missing nutrients than by taking a vitamin. Any website that suggests that most people need to take several types of vitamins or supplements is not providing accurate information. There is a lot of pseudoscience in the world of nutritional supplements, so I would recommend using Pubmed or .gov or .edu sites and avoiding .com sites. You can also search for "pseudoscience" and whatever you're interested in to check for accuracy.

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    Thank you Flyingmouse. Your message was very well-stated.

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    Originally Posted by Flyingmouse
    As a scientist, I am somewhat skeptical of many claims related to multivitamins and natural supplements. They are not well-regulated and recent studies have shown that many supplements do not even contain the ingredients listed in the packaging. If you are nutritionally deficient, you are more likely to improve your health by consuming foods that contain missing nutrients than by taking a vitamin. Any website that suggests that most people need to take several types of vitamins or supplements is not providing accurate information. There is a lot of pseudoscience in the world of nutritional supplements, so I would recommend using Pubmed or .gov or .edu sites and avoiding .com sites. You can also search for "pseudoscience" and whatever you're interested in to check for accuracy.


    I agree with the first part of your message, but not the second. Suggesting that government websites are more trustworthy after decades of governmental boosting of wheat flour and margarine and demonising of healthy fats is no more helpful than telling people to believe what manufacturers of nutritional supplements want to sell them. I do not want to start a debate about science versus pseudoscience in nutrition - people have incredibly strong beliefs about these things, someone might get hurt. But please do not imply that you do not need to keep using your critical thinking just because it is a gov or edu website as opposed to a com website you are looking at.

    And there is such a thing as wide spread nutritional deficiencies in first world countries, or there would be, if the were no quiet supplementation going on.
    Yes, most every office worker or full time student in the northern hemisphere should take extra vitamin D, at least over the winter, This is how Scandinavians, Finns and Icelanders have kept healthy for centuries - cod liver oil. It's a supplement. The more natural the source, the better, but it is really hard to boost vitamin D intake and production with a modern lifestyle. I wish I could get out of the office more during short winter days, but I can't. I know we should eat more fresh fish, but good sources for wild caught fresh sea food (as opposed to corn fed farm fish) are hard to find far from the coast.
    Yes, most people in landlocked areas are iodine deficient. That's why traditional dress in landlocked Europe includes so called goiter bands - almost every one had one, because almost everyone had a goiter. It's not so prevalent today because of iodized salt, a supplement almost everybody takes in without even thinking about it. Most of us in landlocked areas would have goiters without it.

    Perfectly agree with the advice to just eat the fresh food with the nutrients, whenever you can. I wish I had a good source for raw sauerkraut for choline and lactobacillus intake, or had the time and grit to make it myself - almost everything you can buy is pasturized and artificially soured with vinegar. In the absence of a good source and time to be a perfect homemaker, my family will take it as a supplement.

    Last edited by Tigerle; 06/01/16 03:08 AM.

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