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    Joined: May 2013
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    Thought this was interesting about how schools think about themselves and kids/parents and why parents feel like they hit a brick wall so often. Wish I could send this to every school in the nation and make them read it.

    http://www.wrightslaw.com/advoc/articles/ALESSI1.html

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    Wow. Thank you for sharing this article.

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    In my case my kid's problems were caused by my enabling them. Obviousky a teacher knows more about medical issues than a hospital soecialist. Tbe result was 18 months regression and a couple of years educational growth.

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    Val Offline
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    Well, that was one of the most depressing education articles I've ever read, which is saying an awful lot. Putting the interests of the adults in the school ahead of the interests of the children as a matter of policy. Wow.

    Originally Posted by Depressing article
    Finally, I asked how many reports concluded that child factors were primarily responsible for the referred problem. The answer was 100%. These 5,000 positive findings uncovered the true weak link in the educational process in these districts: the children themselves.

    When Dr. Alessi shared these findings with the school psychologists, many protested that "all five factors are indeed responsible for school problems in the cases they studied, but that informal school policy (or ‘school culture’) dictates that conclusions be limited to child and family factors.

    I suspect that big lawsuits are the only way to change this sort of thing. frown

    It occurs to me that schools may have the same outlook on gifted students: it's YOUR fault (or mom/dad's) that you're not challenged. It's YOUR fault that you don't fit in. It's YOUR fault if you get picked on.

    Last edited by Val; 05/19/16 02:29 PM. Reason: Added info to make quote make sense
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    I'm pretty sure I posted the same article a couple of years ago. Still scandalous.

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    I agree that parents and students are sometimes blamed. I have seen this first hand and have seen strange tactics from the schools to protect their interests.

    I have also had some extremely good interactions with schools, so I can say for sure there are good and bad ones. And I think it is different cultures of the administration/principals, in our case.

    Last edited by howdy; 05/19/16 05:16 PM.
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    Tangentially related:

    After the recent hell-month-or-two, I called coordinator of DS' program and explained that he was really melting down, wanting to quit school, and that I was weighing options for next year. I told her I wasn't going to allow him to "just quit" but was trying to support him and help him understand that it wasn't in his best interest to just stop doing everything, because of one overwhelming class.

    Her response: "Yes, and he needs to understand that he made a COMMITMENT."

    I had a huge WTH/aha moment to that response. I understand that mentality, in terms of playing a sport, or performing in a play, etc., but this confirmed my hunch the school thinks they are providing a "privilege" to the students. No concern for the fact he was having daily anxiety attacks, saying that school made him hate himself, his saying one teacher hated him and would never give him a decent grade, etc. Just what he *owes* to the school. smirk

    He did have several very kind teachers, including one who said "What do we need to do to get DS through the end of school?" I suppose I am naive, because that was the sort of response I'd expect across the board.

    I think it is very difficult for some personality types to understand that it's not necessary to be defensive at every turn. I'm not sure where that originates, although I suspect that the same super-organized, systems-oriented skill set that helps teachers function in that system, may be frequently accompanied by some rigidity.


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    Eco--yuck. Yes, I do think there is a lot of rigidity which tends to mean they are also very opinionated, and also people not wanting to apologize or admit they were wrong about anything, even when it's right in their face. I always get the feeling that no one really cares what I have to say, they are not even interested, really. They have their own ideas and minds made up. When I found out that DS's neuropsych report had been sitting there for 1.5 years and no one read it, and even after I mentioned it was there, still no one read it or showed any interest in reading it, I was just scratching my head. It had so much info that could have been useful to them. The only person who seemed interested was the nurse. So in the article they talk about having IEEs done. But I have no interest in explaining an IEE to people who don't really care anyway. They have proven helpful though, in terms of reversing the course of direction that the school was going to take. Not so much because the school finally "got it" but because it was documentation that I needed to fight them, and they knew it.


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    Originally Posted by blackcat
    When I found out that DS's neuropsych report had been sitting there for 1.5 years and no one read it, and even after I mentioned it was there, still no one read it or showed any interest in reading it, I was just scratching my head. It had so much info that could have been useful to them. The only person who seemed interested was the nurse.
    That is upsetting. frown You lay out all of your DS' relevant, personal, and vulnerable info and nobody even bothers with it? Makes me sad.

    You know, now that you mention it, in both of my sons' cases, the nurse has been the kindest, most interested, and most supportive person at the school! Older DS had seizure disorder in HS that nobody gave a hoot about, and DS13 school nurse and I had a very long conversation in which I learned more helpful info about the 504 than I'd ever known before.

    Maybe the school nurse is our most under-utilized school professional?

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    I haven't had time to read the article yet, so I'm holding back from commenting until I do.. but.... fwiw....

    Originally Posted by eco21268
    Her response: "Yes, and he needs to understand that he made a COMMITMENT."

    *REALLY*????? and yikes!!!! I can't believe they said that. (OTOH, I guess I can considering some of the clueless things school staff have said to us when advocating for our 2e kids over the years... but still....)

    Honestly, is it at all fair to frame this as a student made a commitment? Did he honestly have a choice re whether or not to go to school? This is nothing at all like deciding to play on a soccer team, signing up for the season, and then quitting after the first game. Our kids are in school because the law says they have to go to school. We may make choices to attend optional school programs or take certain classes, but you can't frame any of that into the student making a "commitment". Well, I can't lol.

    Sorry - hope you didn't think I was ranting at you eco, I wasn't. That comment just really rubbed me the wrong way. Good thing I wasn't the parent present at school at the time it was made smile

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

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    Originally Posted by polarbear
    I haven't had time to read the article yet, so I'm holding back from commenting until I do.. but.... fwiw....

    Originally Posted by eco21268
    Her response: "Yes, and he needs to understand that he made a COMMITMENT."

    *REALLY*????? and yikes!!!! I can't believe they said that. (OTOH, I guess I can considering some of the clueless things school staff have said to us when advocating for our 2e kids over the years... but still....)

    Honestly, is it at all fair to frame this as a student made a commitment? Did he honestly have a choice re whether or not to go to school? This is nothing at all like deciding to play on a soccer team, signing up for the season, and then quitting after the first game. Our kids are in school because the law says they have to go to school. We may make choices to attend optional school programs or take certain classes, and of course the student should strive to meet all the class requirements as best he/she can... but you can't frame any of that into the student being responsible because they "made a commitment". Well, I can't lol.

    Sorry - hope you didn't think I was ranting at you eco, I wasn't. That comment just really rubbed me the wrong way. Good thing I wasn't the parent present at school at the time it was made smile

    Best wishes,

    polarbear

    Last edited by polarbear; 05/21/16 07:20 AM.
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    Originally Posted by polarbear
    Originally Posted by eco21268
    Her response: "Yes, and he needs to understand that he made a COMMITMENT."

    *REALLY*????? and yikes!!!! I can't believe they said that. (OTOH, I guess I can considering some of the clueless things school staff have said to us when advocating for our 2e kids over the years... but still....)

    Honestly, is it at all fair to frame this as a student made a commitment? Did he honestly have a choice re whether or not to go to school? This is nothing at all like deciding to play on a soccer team, signing up for the season, and then quitting after the first game. Our kids are in school because the law says they have to go to school. We may make choices to attend optional school programs or take certain classes, and of course the student should strive to meet all the class requirements as best he/she can... but you can't frame any of that into the student being responsible because they "made a commitment". Well, I can't lol.

    Sorry - hope you didn't think I was ranting at you eco, I wasn't. That comment just really rubbed me the wrong way. Good thing I wasn't the parent present at school at the time it was made smile
    polarbear


    ITA. If I'd been thinking on my feet, I'd have responded with something to the effect that if that is the case, the school has also committed to supporting him and meeting his needs as a learner.

    The program is a "choice" program, meaning he is not "entitled" to be there. I don't think I'd have heard this at the school he is assigned to attend.

    It sheds light on how they view the program, doesn't it.

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    Originally Posted by eco21268
    Maybe the school nurse is our most under-utilized school professional?

    I think this may depend on the particular school nurse. When DD was enrolled at the local public all started out well but went competely to he!! when new school nurse came on board. She and horrible principal seemed to validate each other's opinions. Nurse "didn't believe" DD's diagnoses, found "parents' claims to be unbelievable" and contacted our pediatrician to request "documentation of all concerns you have had about this child since birth". This was all included in our DOE complaint but she continued her aggressive behavior with other kids after DD left the school. A friend begged me for help because this same nurse was single handedly preventing her daughter from getting a 504 for a physical disability. After sending that parent to Wrightslaw and providing some basic information she was able to get 504 meeting convened, with personnel from central office in attendance. According to the description I heard this nurse was willing to do almost anything to block the 504 - no idea why - and threw a total hissy fit when the rest of the team unanimously voted in favor of providing it. During the meeting psychology student (intern?) in attendance gave a little speech about how important it is for children to feel safe with school nurse and afterwards principal apologized to my friend for the nurse's totally inappropriate behavior. Nurse left the school under not great circumstances a while later...

    So... ummm... I'm very glad to hear that some have had awesome experiences with school nurses who advocate for their kids but no unfortunately it's not a universal phenomenon.

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    As with all other professional roles, some school nurses are wonderful resources, and others...not so much. I think the best ones care about children professionally (not in an over-involved, personal way), are extremely knowledgeable and competent in their own profession, and know what their roles are in the school. Where I've seen issues, it's usually been in one of these areas. A typical scenario is if the nurse (or other professional role) attempts to act outside of his/her expertise, such as by making unfounded determinations regarding the presence or absence of mental illness. Another one is when the staff member loses objectivity about a child, due to personal relationships (either positive or negative) with the child or the child's parent, for instance, either discounting or blindly believing uncorroborated reports about a child's behavior, based on preconceived notions.


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    Now that I think of it--I did notice one of the main positive things the nurse had to say (about both of my kids, this year) was that since she'd never met them, it increased their credibility. Ha ha! I knew what she meant, but it does follow that a kid with health issues (mental or otherwise) might see the nurse more often than those without.

    She did take time to explain to DS that if he had a panic event, he could come there and she showed him where he could sit (private) and reassured him this is a very common problem in the school.

    She also explained to me that *any* absence related in *any* way to the diagnoses on the 504 is can be coded that way, which I didn't understand before.




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