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    Joined: Apr 2015
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    P.S. I tell DS he needs to write his answers to things as if he were explaining to his seven-year-old cousin and that actually works! Weird how we've come up with the same interventions.

    P.P.S. OMG, DS writes really great poetry, too! I didn't take in all that you wrote. You could be talking about my kid.

    Last edited by eco21268; 05/18/16 10:13 AM.
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    Originally Posted by eco21268
    I helped him study for a test and it was pretty enlightening, and hilarious, and also sad. We made flash cards and I would say, "what do you know about dolomite," for instance, and he absolutely could. not. answer. the question phrased that way. His responses were things like (in the dolomite instance)--"Um, not much--it's a rock." When I asked the question more specifically, he was able to recall a lot more detail and express it more clearly. But if I don't say the right word, he just STICKS in a strange, literal place.

    I also noticed that he cannot "memorize" in terms of rote memory, if he doesn't understand the concept. He was having trouble with understanding the "coriolos effect," and said there was no use trying to just memorize a blurb about it--yet could describe other more complicated concepts quite easily, because he understands them.

    You're describing what could be a retrieval deficit. It's all about the hook, both for getting it into long-term storage, and for getting it back out. When he is able to take notecards into tests, he should make sure that he studies to mastery with the SAME notecards he will have, so that the retrieval cues can be attached to the materials he has available in the testing situation.

    It may also help him to learn some typical "translations" for the kinds of questions that teachers ask in class and on assignments and assessments, so that he can re-interpret those excessively vague and open-ended questions into something that works better for him.


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    Originally Posted by aeh
    You're describing what could be a retrieval deficit.
    Is that an EF thing or an LD?

    Originally Posted by aeh
    It may also help him to learn some typical "translations" for the kinds of questions that teachers ask in class and on assignments and assessments, so that he can re-interpret those excessively vague and open-ended questions into something that works better for him.
    I wondered about that, while I was working with him. I told him, for now, just to interpret all questions as "say everything you know" about the concept/term and explained to him that is a better strategy than leaving a blank. This sounds nutty, but DS was astonished. He said, dubiously, "I don't think she gives partial credit." I don't think he even understands what that means.

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    I usually consider it an LD-related deficit, but you could classify it as EF, since it's generally assessed using neuropsych EF instruments like the WRAML or RCFT.

    It's not particularly important which category it falls into.


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    eco, that's really tough that your DS is struggling so much with the stimulants. As if it wasn't bad enough that they're not helping the way you might hope, it's brutal that they are adding to your DS's frustration and to conflict with him. Sending oodles of commiseration.

    As I understand it, a huge piece of ADHD is trouble with factoids. I certainly see it with my kids. Isolated bits of data are really hard for them to absorb. Complex concepts with context, much, much easier. We could actually see this really clearly in memory tests in my daughter's psych assessment, where scores ranged from 30s to 90s, generally increasing with more meaningful tasks. For example, her recall of story details was amazing, but words lists not so much.

    It's really important for them to have an over-arching concept or framework first, into which they can insert the bits of data. Like a minerals classification scheme, with an understanding of all the key characteristics that could be looked at and how they are used to sort/ differentiate the various minerals... I'm the antithesis of visual spatial, but I suspect the way my kids would deal with that kind of question is to picture a periodic table kind of schematic in their head, find the mineral in question, and then derive its characteristics from what they know about the characteristics associated with the rows and columns into which they have put that particular sample....

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    Getting my ADHD daughter to memorize meaningless info, like names of capitals, is like pulling teeth. My other gifted kid who doesn't have ADHD or is "less" ADHD does not have a problem w/ this at all. She scored in the average range on most memory neuropsych tests vs. her reasoning ability was so much higher. Working memory on the WISC IV was very high, however. Not sure why. Working memory in terms of the BRIEF for executive functioning was in the very impaired range, so there is a difference depending on what a person means by working memory as well. The type of working memory on the WISC is completely different than working memory for executive functioning.

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    Originally Posted by aeh
    I usually consider it an LD-related deficit, but you could classify it as EF, since it's generally assessed using neuropsych EF instruments like the WRAML or RCFT.

    It's not particularly important which category it falls into.
    My question was really "who diagnoses this?" Thanks for answering it, despite my clunkiness. smile

    Originally Posted by Platypus101
    's really important for them to have an over-arching concept or framework first, into which they can insert the bits of data. Like a minerals classification scheme, with an understanding of all the key characteristics that could be looked at and how they are used to sort/ differentiate the various minerals... I'm the antithesis of visual spatial, but I suspect the way my kids would deal with that kind of question is to picture a periodic table kind of schematic in their head, find the mineral in question, and then derive its characteristics from what they know about the characteristics associated with the rows and columns into which they have put that particular sample....
    I couldn't say if DS is visual/spatial but I do think he has to actually need the information (factoids) before they begin to sprout in his brain. I think the reason I can get him excited about topics is because I ask him a lot of questions about the "whys" of things. He doesn't do "whats" very well. I bet that doesn't make sense...but it does to me, because I process information similarly.
    Originally Posted by blackcat
    Getting my ADHD daughter to memorize meaningless info, like names of capitals, is like pulling teeth. My other gifted kid who doesn't have ADHD or is "less" ADHD does not have a problem w/ this at all. She scored in the average range on most memory neuropsych tests vs. her reasoning ability was so much higher. Working memory on the WISC IV was very high, however. Not sure why. Working memory in terms of the BRIEF for executive functioning was in the very impaired range, so there is a difference depending on what a person means by working memory as well. The type of working memory on the WISC is completely different than working memory for executive functioning.
    I know you just used states/capitols as an example, but that's one of the puzzling things about the way DS learns. He *does* learn things like states/capitols relatively quickly--but I think he has an innate interest. Also he learned that particular set of info when he was super young, working with puzzles and games.

    His working memory was just fine on recent WISC-V, not crazy high but I think it was mid 120s. He can't "memorize" the basics of getting ready in the morning, though, despite having done these things since he was little! Or maybe it's not that he can't, but that he prefers not to, and doesn't have to, because I do it all morning, every morning. SO EXHAUSTING.

    I am pretty sure the BRIEF assessment is just observers rating behaviors, correct? DS bombed that one, too, along with all of the EF related stuff in the ABAS-2 he took last year.

    He doesn't seem to be able to memorize auditory, multiple-step instructions, but knows every major league baseball player who ever lived, along with their stats, history, big games, etc. He also knows a lot of pop culture stuff, remembers names of songs/bands, etc., unlike ME, who can't remember any of that stuff, ever. My friends make fun of me because I never know anything about actors, musicians, etc. or sports (I thought Kobe Bryant was a baseball player, for instance), but I just *can't* make myself care about it and my brain doesn't work unless I care.

    I can't remember names of books I've read or who wrote them, unless I'm completely enchanted by them. I've found myself mid-book more than once, suddenly feeling "this seems familiar" and realizing I've read it before.

    I mention that part because of the whole apple/tree relationship but also because I wonder if this is a similar deficit.

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