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    WStreet Offline OP
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    Hello everyone,

    This is my first post, your forum has been a great source of advice as I navigate my way with 3 young children (eldest 2 identified g).

    We recently re-tested DD5:9 with a newer version of the WPPSI for school reasons. Her latest WPPSI IV has come back with the same FSIQ as her initial one age 3 - however her nonverbal scores have increased, and her verbal ones have decreased.

    I wanted to ask the test experts among us.

    What does a (relatively) low score in Information mean? Does the difference in Verbal seem statistically a potential red flag for any LDs? Our psych didn't seem to think so but I thought I would put it out here for some 'Mum advice'- thanks in advance!

    FSIQ was calcualated approximately 137
    NonVerbal: 140
    Verbal: 110
    Working Memory: 144

    SUBTEST SCORES
    Information
    10 (scaled)
    50 (percentile)

    Similarities
    13 (scaled)
    84 (percentile)
    (Vocabulary)
    15
    95
    (Comprehension)
    12
    75
    Block Design
    17
    99
    Object Assembly
    13
    84
    Matrix Reasoning
    19
    99.9
    Picture Concepts
    13
    84
    Picture Memory
    17
    99
    Zoo Locations
    17
    99
    Bug Search
    14
    91
    CA
    13
    84
    (Animal Coding)
    14
    91



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    aeh Offline
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    Yes and no. The difference is fairly sizable, but your child is also quite young, at an age when there is a wide range of developmental curves. She is also, presumably, not in a great deal of systematic formal education yet, so there may be differences in the content and extent of her exposure to different aspects of academic knowledge.

    The reporting of index scores is a bit nonstandard, though, especially when the psych is not concerned about LD. Why is the FSIQ an approximation, and not exactly that number? I assume the Nonverbal Index was reported because the Verbal Comprehension scores were so much lower, and the psych was trying to present a global score without including them. I speculate that only two of the five primary index scores was reported because of the widely divergent results within the Visual Spatial and Fluid Reasoning Indices. But that doesn't explain why Processing Speed is not reported, since those scores are consistent with each other.

    But I digress.

    With regard to the differences in test results, in addition to the high degree of variability in young children, which is probably the most important factor, you are also comparing two different tests. Based on the date of your previous eval, and I would imagine that the previous test was also the WPPSI-IV, just the lower age-level (2:6-3:11) of the same test. (Even if it was actually the previous edition, the discussion below applies, as the structure of the test on the WPPSI-III was similar, as regards verbal and nonverbal clusters.)

    The Verbal Comprehension tasks at that level are not exactly the same as those at the upper level. One subtest is entirely different (Receptive Vocabulary), in that it uses visual supports, and requires only a pointing response to identify the meaning of a word presented by the examiner. The other subtest is nominally the same, but starts with picture items at the lower level, as compared to verbal only items at the upper level.

    The Nonverbal tasks on the lower level consist only of the two Visual Spatial tasks also administered at the upper level (BD and OA), plus the two working memory tasks. (On the WPPSI-III, the nonverbal cluster is called Performance IQ, and consists solely of the VSI tasks.) If you look at her performance on those two subtests (i.e., the Visual Spatial Index, not reported here) I suspect it is not that different from the Visual Spatial Index obtained at age 3. The older age Nonverbal Index takes the stronger of her two VSI subtests, two Fluid Reasoning subtests that weren't previously administered, and one each of the WMI and PSI subtests.

    So it isn't really a one-to-one comparison. The correct comparison is the lower preschool level VSI (likely what you describe as the earlier nonverbal measure) to the upper preschool/kindergarten level VSI (not reported).


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    WStreet Offline OP
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    Hi AEH,

    Thank you so much for your feedback. I was hoping you would weigh in with your insights!

    I have some more info see below. However the psych sent this as an initial overview - since then (yesterday) she mentioned irregular scores within subtests for Fluid Reasoning and Visual Spatial .. is that what you can see?

    The initial summary is below. Her FSIQ is actually identical (137) to when she tested age 3 on the WPPSI III . However the scores are less 'even' across verbal and nonverbal. The psych said the 5 point difference within Fluid Reasoning indicates a statistical anomaly ?

    PRIMARY INDEX SUMMARY

    Verbal Comprehension
    VCI
    23
    110
    75
    102-117
    High Average
    Visual Spatial
    VSI
    30
    128
    97
    116-134
    Superior
    Fluid Reasoning
    FRI
    32
    136
    99
    127-141
    Very Superior
    Working Memory
    WMI
    34
    144
    99.8
    132-148
    Very Superior
    Processing Speed
    PSI
    27
    120
    91
    107-127
    Superior
    Full Scale IQ
    FSIQ
    90
    137
    99
    130-141
    Very Superior

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    WStreet Offline OP
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    And just so I understand .. is this what you mean?

    It doesn't matter that Verbal is weaker now as it's measuring a different type of verbal skill vs the younger edition of WPPSI ?

    DD strengths are obviously in NonVerbal with Verbal being a comparative weakness **We also did a WIAT where she scored between 99.9 to 99th (Age Equ) across all subtests - except Vocab which was 92th which I guess is in line with the lower VCI ?

    I also wondered what INFO was and why she is so much lower in this vs the other subtests? But when I look closer there seems to be a few odd things going on with scores in particular the gap between subtests in FR and VS...

    We are meeting school to discuss further acceleration (we have had a rough start to schooling for her and her g older brother). We have finally found a nurturing environment with teachers who have postgrad training in G Ed. I just worry they are going to see this VCI score and this will be what they focus on.


    Thank you smile




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    aeh Offline
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    Yes. The change in Verbal between administrations does not alarm me. More important is the current data on a relative weakness in language areas. Visual-spatial, fluid reasoning, and (visual) working memory are clearly her strengths. And that profile does line up with mathematical strengths in many children. Her WIAT vocab is right on par with her WPPSI vocab. Actually, I wonder if the relative weakness in vocabulary affected her FRI, as she did so much better on the abstract-visual reasoning task than on the one using concrete-familiar images (for which some children bring in verbal strategies that rely on being able to name the images). It may be that her reading is not at the level of her nonverbal abilities; we don't have good information on that, as it might not show up as a low score on the WIAT, as the ceiling on Early Reading Skills is very low. Any child who has any phonetic reading skills should be able to fly through it. Likewise, writing is restricted to Alphabet Writing Fluency, rather than any actual word or sentence writing.


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    WStreet Offline OP
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    Hi AEH - thank you, you are a godsend to this community!

    Ok so her WIAT Reading came in at 160 or 99.9+ %. She has very strong reading ability and kind of self-taught age 3 and it snowballed from there.

    The only thing I can think of with INFO and some of the Verbal (I might be clutching at straws here) but DD and DS went to a Montessori school last year until recently. It actually turned out to be a disaster for DD and she was in a bad place until we pulled her out.

    In the Montessori we were at the teachers didn't do a lot of 'teaching' - in fact it was very quiet environment. They observe and the materials teach the child. I wonder if this environment had any impact on her Verbal abilities?

    She is a very strong reader and speller however I've been told reading (Decoding) actually comes from teh Non-Verbal side of the brain? ANd her spelling might be due to her WM ! Apologies for my rushed response and typo's - flying out the door for school run.

    Our pysch said the FSIQ she supplied of 137 was actually the Primary Index Scales. WE are waiting on a new one later day and the full report. she said the FSIQ needs to be interpreted with caution due to the anomalies within VCI vs WM and FR .. and then also within the subtests in FR and VS.

    I am wishing I waited for the WISC V to be available in July here now (Australia) as it might have been a better match for her.

    We are meeting with school to find out how they can help her next week. I hope they dont get hung up on the VCI !

    You are such a great help -t hank you smile


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    aeh Offline
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    I would agree that decoding at this level can be mostly a visual skill, and that her excellent spelling may be due to her equally excellent memory.

    Yes, general knowledge can be affected by environmental exposure, though the WPPSI is less academic in its expectations, since many of the members of the norm group were not in academic environments. And she did not do that much better on Comprehension, which relies more on everyday experience than academic instruction. I still have to wonder about a potential real relative weakness in language-related cognition, because the pattern is consistent.

    It is good, though, that there is currently no apparent academic impact on her fundamental reading and writing skills.


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    WStreet Offline OP
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    Thank you aeh, sounds like we should keep an eye on her language and also embrace this with the school in case there are any red flags.

    Appreciate your advice, enjoy your weekend !



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