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    #229419 - 04/11/16 06:33 PM Re: Absurdity [Re: BrownTiger]
    aeh Offline

    Registered: 04/26/14
    Posts: 3732
    I absolutely agree that some form of acceleration is far more valuable than the tradeoffs for some children. I have first- or second-hand knowledge of an unusually high number of acceleration stories, including many radical accelerants into early college, and it is clear to me that a significant number of those individuals would have suffered loss or injury to important aspects of themselves had they not been accelerated. The costs of acceleration were well worth it for them. Those observers who believe the costs -were- too high generally have not grasped the severity of pre-acceleration psychic pain they were experiencing. These are the kinds of data captured by the longitudinal research on radical acceleration.

    The main point though, is that these are group data. Just because something is good for most members of a class does not mean it is good for this member of the class. And conversely, just because many people know someone who had a bad experience with acceleration does not mean that it is damaging to every child--or to this child in particular.

    We have to know our own children as multidimensional actors, trust our instincts, maintain open, sensitive, nonjudgmental communication with them and their educational environments, and be pragmatic about changing course when needs warrant. We also should be both honest and forgiving about our own past mistakes as parents; rarely were they not well meant. Own them, learn from them, deal with the consequences, and move on.
    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...

    #229429 - 04/11/16 11:33 PM Re: Absurdity [Re: BrownTiger]
    HowlerKarma Offline

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    Exactly-- we can't know, any of us, what the road not taken would have brought.

    Not all of the struggles in life are about acceleration or the lack of it, to be sure. But do understand that if you choose the route of acceleration, they may well be judged as such by most people.
    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.

    #229441 - 04/12/16 07:29 AM Re: Absurdity [Re: BrownTiger]
    _Angie_ Offline

    Registered: 03/18/14
    Posts: 146
    Thank you. I really needed to read some of these comments.

    #229453 - 04/12/16 08:44 AM Re: Absurdity [Re: _Angie_]
    bluemagic Offline

    Registered: 03/29/13
    Posts: 1489
    Originally Posted By: _Angie_
    Thank you. I really needed to read some of these comments.
    I can tell a disastrous tail of a HG kid accelerated early to university that went very wrong. But the reason it didn't work was more because of bad parenting. At the time I knew the kid the parent was in it for his own glory and the kid was really miserable. It wasn't being at university at 11 that was the main problem, but how it was handled.

    #229454 - 04/12/16 09:04 AM Re: Absurdity [Re: BrownTiger]
    _Angie_ Offline

    Registered: 03/18/14
    Posts: 146
    I think like many here I feel I struggled later in life because of easy academics early on. I want to save my son from that of course and acceleration seems like it might help. I still feel that way after reading this thread, but it is a nice reminder that it's not a simple fix that's going to cure all.

    Thank you to the person that referenced "The Calculus Trap." That was a good read.

    My husband entered college at 17 and had a great experience. Just another random data point. smile

    #229455 - 04/12/16 09:05 AM Re: Absurdity [Re: BrownTiger]
    Tigerle Offline

    Registered: 07/29/14
    Posts: 602
    Loc: Europe
    I think this thread has strayed far from the topic.

    If (IF) this squabbling couple is real, the OP wants something quite different. You may want to check out the threads by shifrbv, who appears to be the wife in question

    Shifrbv has posted several times professing herself worried about her older daughters MAP testing. Apparently, their public school district has determined that a MAP score from fourth grade in the 98th percentile or above will determine eligibility for entry into an accelerated math track after fourth grade - there is no mention of grade skips, let alone multiple grade skips or early graduation and early college in any of their posts, merely the OP talking about being miserable about his own acceleration experiences. For all we know, this math track will culminate with linear algebra in 12th grade for 18 year old kids, we just don't know, it hasn't been mentioned at all.

    The problem the OP really wants to talk about here (but should really talk about with his wife) is that his wife is constantly worried about any instance of the DDs MAP scores dipping or not growing along that 98th percentile curve and keeps demanding from (seemingly unresponsive) teachers that they need to teach thier DD math at the level the child needs to master (apparently that would be 6th grade maths) in order to for the DD to score at the 98th percentile at the right moment in time in fourth, and the OP disapproves of this to the extent that he has chimed in on his wife's thread, questioning her accuracy.

    I am missing any mention about the child's actual academic needs, as opposed to one parents determination that the child must be eligible for the accelerated math track and the others parents disapproval of that. For all we know, the child may love 6th grade maths, and be miserable being stunted in the classroom - or be hothoused to death and be miserable with her nose kept to the grindstone.

    It just sounds like a very miserable family dynamic.

    Edited by Tigerle (04/12/16 09:09 AM)

    #229552 - 04/14/16 08:31 AM Re: Absurdity [Re: Tigerle]
    VR00 Offline

    Registered: 02/16/12
    Posts: 181
    Originally Posted By: Tigerle

    I am missing any mention about the child's actual academic needs, as opposed to one parents determination that the child must be eligible for the accelerated math track and the others parents disapproval of that. For all we know, the child may love 6th grade maths, and be miserable being stunted in the classroom - or be hothoused to death and be miserable with her nose kept to the grindstone.

    The issue fundamentally is that child's academic need is very much a judgement call. Having fun in lower grades has worked perfectly well for a lot of kids but has been a disaster for others. Also measures such as NWEA MAP is a very blunt tool. So impossible to base any judgement calls based on it.

    My feedback here would be to work with the school administration or to an alternate school. There is absolutely no value in fighting with them.

    #236375 - 02/06/17 01:02 PM Re: Absurdity [Re: BrownTiger]
    indigo Offline

    Registered: 04/27/13
    Posts: 4338
    Originally Posted By: BrownTiger
    On a daily basis for the last four years, after reading this forum, my wife...
    Possibly there is a misunderstanding? I raise that possibility because on this forum, members emphasize being positive and helping each other learn effective advocacy techniques focused on the child's needs... NOT attacking 8 teachers.

    Originally Posted By: BrownTiger
    telling DDs that "school is not teaching", their teachers are cr@p, even told them not to do the morning work they are required to complete.
    I'm sorry this is happening. In general, children may not need to complete certain specific homework only if they have a diagnosed disability, and a resultant agreement with the school (an IEP or 504) that it is in the child's best interests to reduce the specified workload.

    Unfortunately, under the guise of "differentiation", teachers may not be teaching the kids who are ahead or high-achieving. Teachers may be focused on helping kids who are behind, while those who are ahead may be expected to be self-taught (auto-didactic). This is a commonly mentioned flaw of the current US public education system. One which many believe could be remedied, to a large degree, by flexible cluster grouping of students according to readiness and ability, in each subject (rather than grouping students by chronological age).

    I hope that helps to clarify the information shared on the forums.

    #236377 - 02/06/17 02:32 PM Re: Absurdity [Re: BrownTiger]
    sanne Offline

    Registered: 06/30/16
    Posts: 289
    I've gathered from previous posts that the OP's child is also the child being discussed in "Disaster Grace Skip Really Need Some Help" thread, and that this is not the first public fight about their children's education.

    Forget what grade your kid is in and standardized test scores. Those are trivial compared to the marital conflict she is exposed to. Get it together Mom and Dad. Talk to each other. Get a therapist for yourselves and for her to.


    DH went behind my back at the end of last school year and got DD skipped from 2nd to 4th grade with the understanding that she would be monitored to make sure she wasn't failing.

    DD ended 2nd with MAP scores of 221 for reading and 223 math (both 98%). Her reading during 2nd grade went from level Q to level S by the middle of the year (January).

    Now for this school year:

    At the beginning of this year, DD tested on MAP at the 4th grade level. Her reading fell to 83% in MAP (214) and math fell to 86% (218). Winter MAP she tested at 93% (230) in math but only 85% (219) in reading. She read one book during the semester that was 200 points below NWEA's suggested Lexile. Her middle of the year report shows that she is still reading at level S which is the same level she had as of January of 2nd grade.

    She has made no progress after showing alot of growth in 2nd grade reading (went from level Q to level S in only 2 months in that time frame). Her teacher this year IMO has not been real supportive of the grade skip. When I spoke with her about my concerns in reading at conferences in October, she was short with me and simply said "I get it". Then DD went on to show negative growth on her winter MAP. I don't feel she got it.

    Now this middle of the year report is horrible and our school transitions kids to intermediate school for 5th grade and DD has no chance of any accelerated placement in reading because of it. When I read with her I can tell she is not where she should be.

    I could really use some advice on how to deal with situation. It feels like it's snowballing and I feel DD will be really harmed by going to the general classes in middle school when she was formerly at 98%. DH is hostile and says reading doesn't matter. Only math. i just feel that when you are transitioned to a low class in middle school you can never rejoin a former peer group and DD's future is irreparably damaged.

    Do I have any rights in this situation? Is there anything I can do? Who would skip a child to see them fall to the 80th % and stagnate? It feels like educational neglect which in my state if a parent does this it is a felony. None of it makes any sense to me.

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