Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about Davidson Academy Online - for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S. & Canada.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute

  • Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update Newsletter >

    Free Gifted Resources & Guides >

    Who's Online Now
    0 members (), 239 guests, and 35 robots.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    streble, DeliciousPizza, prominentdigitiz, parentologyco, Smartlady60
    11,413 Registered Users
    March
    S M T W T F S
    1 2
    3 4 5 6 7 8 9
    10 11 12 13 14 15 16
    17 18 19 20 21 22 23
    24 25 26 27 28 29 30
    31
    Previous Thread
    Next Thread
    Print Thread
    Joined: Feb 2016
    Posts: 8
    E
    etxmom Offline OP
    Junior Member
    OP Offline
    Junior Member
    E
    Joined: Feb 2016
    Posts: 8
    DD5 just had an assessment for ASD, but I have suspected that she is twice exceptional for a while. Unfortunately, I was wrong, or she didn't do well testing. She has been diagnosed with ASD (high functioning) and ADHD. She also has problems with sensory processing (just started OT), anxiety and self confidence. Here are her results. I'm concerned with what seems to be a large amount of scatter and the very low visual spatial score. What could this mean? Could this have caused her testing to be less accurate or make her FSIQ not reliable? The doctor she tested with does specializes in kids with Autism. That is his focus, so when I asked about the discrepency he just kind of shrugged his shoulders.

    Scaled Comp
    VC 29 126
    VS 16 89
    FR 21 103
    WM 27 121
    PS 27 121
    FSIQ 71 113

    Subtest: Scaled
    Block Design 9
    Information 14
    Matrix Reasoning 8
    bug search 9
    Picture Memory 16
    Similarities 15
    Picture Concepts 13
    Cancellation 18
    Zoo Locations 11
    Object Assembly 7

    On the Wide Range Achievement Test (4th ed)

    Raw Scaled %
    Word Reading 15 97 42
    Spelling 15 109 73
    Math Computation 12 107 68

    He said that the achievement score should match the IQ test, but it falls below. Also, according to her teacher is at a first grade level for reading, so I'm not sure why she didn't do better here unless she just didn't want to.

    Can someone explain this to me so I can get a better idea of her strengths and weaknesses and whether this is a fair representation of her knowledge? Thank you!

    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,047
    A
    aeh Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,047
    Welcome!

    1. Testing in young children is often unstable, compared to testing after about age nine.

    2. Testing in young ASD children is especially unstable, and often a lower estimate than later testing.

    3. These test results are notable for a fair amount of diversity, both between and within the index scores, which not uncommonly is the case in 2e children.

    4. The lower VSI score is often found in NVLD (nonverbal learning disability). Notably, social deficits are also associated with NVLD. I've also found that a history of early reading delays is also often part of the NVLD profile. There is ongoing discussion in the field as to the definitions and distinctions between ASD and NVLD.

    5. Though not technically in the GT range, her cognitive scores are strong. She certainly should be performing better on achievement. If these results are real, it may be that she is compensating for relative weaknesses in reading decoding skills by using good language comprehension skills to guess at word meanings in context, with enough success to demonstrate good reading comprehension.

    6. Math and spelling are actually on par with her FSIQ, although below her VCI.

    7. Did I mention her index internal inconsistencies? Two are consistent: VCI and VSI ( curiously, her strength and weakness areas). The remaining ones are split between an Average and an above Average subtest.

    Last edited by aeh; 02/10/16 03:21 PM. Reason: Phone autocorrect

    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,047
    A
    aeh Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,047
    Bug Search and Cancellation are about equally weighted for fine motor skills, as they both consist of stamping as a response (they use an ink dauber, kind of like a bingo stamp). OPs DD scored exceedingly well on Cancellation, which suggests that whatever affected Bug Search was probably not fine motor.

    Picture Memory and Picture Concepts (as well as Cancellation) use pictures of concrete-familiar objects, which allows some verbal mediation. Notice she did a lot better on the working memory task that allowed for some verbal mediation (Picture Memory) than she did on the spatial memory task (Zoo Locations). Likewise, in fluid reasoning, Picture Concepts, which allows verbal mediation, was much better than Matrix Reasoning, which is usually more abstract.

    So my hypothesis would be that some of the variation in other indices is still related to the VCI > VSI split. Hence my speculation about NVLD.


    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
    Joined: Feb 2016
    Posts: 8
    E
    etxmom Offline OP
    Junior Member
    OP Offline
    Junior Member
    E
    Joined: Feb 2016
    Posts: 8
    Sorry, I'm so late getting back! I kept checking and checking and my post had not shown up and I was sure that I did something wrong and it wasn't going to post.

    Aeh, thank you thank you thank you. I know that it seemed like there was a lot of variation, but I couldn't make sense of it all. I have actually, recently researched NVLD and believe that it seems like a strong fit for my DD. Her ASD diagnosis is provisional, because she seems to cope well socially, so it could be a toss up between an ASD diagnosis or an NVLD diagnosis, or something completely different.

    I also feel that her hesitancy to try and fail at something could have lowered her scores. She will avoid any task where she thinks she may not be proficient or have the correct answer.

    You say that many of her index scores show internal inconsistencies. I'm not sure which subtests apply to which indices. Can you elaborate or tell me where I might find this information? In all of my googling, it seems more difficult to find info on the WPPSI than the WISC. :-)

    I feel quite strongly that her scores would be somewhat higher if we could figure out exactly what is going on with her and how to help her. Unfortunately, I live in East Texas, which I'm sure you figured out, and we just don't seem to have the resources I need to get some more definitive answers about her. I'm considering waiting a year or two and then seeing if I can find someone within traveling distance that has experience testing 2E kids.

    Portia, it's very interesting had a multiple standard deviation change between tests. I think a little maturity and the right tester may help DD to feel more comfortable next time and allow to do better. This was solely for ASD eval and she had never seen the tester in her life. Her fine motor skills are questionable. Her teacher says that her handwriting is very sloppy. She is not very competent dressing herself, but I can't even get her to try. We are starting OT Monday, so maybe we can sort some of that out.

    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,047
    A
    aeh Offline
    Member
    Offline
    Member
    A
    Joined: Apr 2014
    Posts: 4,047
    The WPPSI-IV index structure is as follows:

    VCI Information, Similarities
    VSI Block Design, Object Assembly
    FRI Matrix Reasoning, Picture Concepts--5 scale score diff
    WMI Picture Memory, Zoo Locations--5 scale score diff
    PSI Bug Search, Cancellation--9 scale score diff

    FSIQ Information, Similarities, Block Design, Matrix Reasoning, Picture Memory, Bug Search
    GAI Information, Similarities, Block Design, Matrix Reasoning

    Some context: 3 scales scores is 1 standard deviation. So the 5 scale score differences are 1.7 SD apart, and the 9 scale score difference is a whopping 3 SD difference. Typically, a 1 to 1.5 SD difference is considered significant. 2.5 SDs separate her highest and lowest index scores, which suggests interpreting her FSIQ with caution.

    Notice also that her FSIQ would be higher if Cancellation were used instead of Bug Search, and Picture Concepts instead of Matrix Reasoning (probably in the mid to upper 120s). And lower if Zoo Locations were used instead of Picture Memory. Which again suggests interpreting the FSIQ with caution.


    ...pronounced like the long vowel and first letter of the alphabet...
    Joined: Feb 2016
    Posts: 8
    E
    etxmom Offline OP
    Junior Member
    OP Offline
    Junior Member
    E
    Joined: Feb 2016
    Posts: 8
    Thank you so much! This is the information I was trying to get from her psychologist, but wasn't sure how to ask and he didn't seem to be too concerned with the subtest scatter, although I wondered if it would possibly render her FSIQ unreliable.

    Now I'm wondering, if in fact, it's NVLD, she didn't care to perform well, or if her lack of confidence held her back a little.

    I will get her retested at some point to get a better idea of how she is doing/coping. Would 7 be a more reliable age? I also need to find someone with experience in 2E, in case she is in fact twice exceptional.


    Moderated by  M-Moderator 

    Link Copied to Clipboard
    Recent Posts
    Testing with accommodations
    by aeh - 03/27/24 01:58 PM
    Quotations that resonate with gifted people
    by indigo - 03/27/24 12:38 PM
    New, and you'd think I'd have a clue...
    by astronomama - 03/24/24 06:01 AM
    For those interested in astronomy, eclipses...
    by indigo - 03/23/24 06:11 PM
    Son 2e, wide discrepancy between CogAT-Terranova
    by astronomama - 03/23/24 07:21 AM
    Powered by UBB.threads™ PHP Forum Software 7.7.5