Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums General Discussion Easing Pressure on Students Bares Ethnic Divide

There is a massive test prep industry going on in these towns--for elementary schoolers. They have taken the madness we see in competitive high schools and brought it to your 2nd grader. Whether the methods to change things are right, I don't know, but change is desperately needed.

As for right to squeak, I am very surprised to hear the opinions here. There is certainly a place for selective music groups, but I have never heard of an ELEMENTARY school music group in a public school (general band and orchestra) that forces students to "pass" each piece before they may participate in concerts. Please. That is insane. Are general music groups at your children's schools audition-only and pass-based on each piece? I have truly NEVER heard of this and it would outrage me.

I think that there are several youth sports organizations right now that are really trying to change youth sports into a safe place to develop and kids making their own decisions and mistakes (fumbling) is one of those things I have been reading about a lot. This seems to be aimed at younger ages, before high school. One example of an organization like this is Positive Coaching Alliance.

Like ultramarina, I also agree that music should be open to all at the younger ages. There should be try-outs and honor bands and so on at higher levels, but one should be able to participate in school music programs.

Easing the pressure by having less homework does sound like somethings I could agree with. Someone mentioned having to prep in the summer for AP classes. My first thought is that if a student had to do that to pass, maybe they shouldn't be placed in the AP class after all. Teachers may have to change the way they teach in order to cover the material. So although this change might not be perfect, it may have some merit.

I will also add that admission to the GT math program (seems to be the center of the controversy, but frankly the proposed changes are not that big, IMO) happens via parent nomination (red flag) and one high-stakes test (red flag). I'm confused about the program in a lot of ways because it's alternately presented by all sides as super-high-ability genius stuff and...not. And this is a question of serious interest for us here, too. Is it a highly gifted math enrichment program for the 1% with natural math gifts, or is it a double-accelerated math track that starts in elementary school in a very high-achieving district? I've seen the program referred to as two years ahead. In a district like this one (aeh is looking at those figures--the district is waaaaay out there...think Palo Alto ish) it would be reasonable to expect 10% or more of kids in there. Again, both sides of the issues are confusing me on this point. Maybe there needs to be a gifted math and an accelerated math, though how you would determine who goes where, heaven knows. My DD is supposedly two years ahead in math now (tracked into this class this year--6th--based on a test) and I don't consider her a math whiz. (Actually, I wonder how many kids in the district are in her track? At her school it would be about 5%.)

This seems relevant:

"How Not to Ruin a Swimming Prodigy"

http://www.wsj.com/articles/SB10001424052702303674004577434550791785644

"As a coach, however, Schmitz stands out for a devotion to rest and play. No less important than his swimmers' splits is whether they are having fun inside and outside the natatorium. At practice, if the kids seem spent, he'll end the workout midway through and start a game of water polo. "He's a fun loving kid, he laughs with them, he plays loud music," said D.A. Franklin, Missy's mother."

The old adage in advertising was that 50% of the money spent is wasted. In these toxic high pressure school districts how much of that studying time actually is helping the kids improve? Lots of kids are probably way past diminishing returns and deep into negative returns.

Our district is nowhere near this toxic, but I think it could be headed in a similar direction. Just a few comments-

Regarding the "right to squeak"- our district has something similar, and it stinks. The string program is very competitive, with lots of kids who begin in private lessons before the school program starts. For the first year of the program, the concerts are organized so that only the kids who have mastered pieces play; if a student has not yet gotten that far in their ability, they sit down for that piece(s) during the concert. My kids progressed quickly on the program despite not beginning early and thus played all the pieces in concerts, but we're so uncomfortable and distressed with the public demonstration of different ability that they both switched to the band program In 5th grade, when it begins. They were frustrated at times with the low general level of music, but everyone played- much better system (both auditioned and all-comers ensembles are the norm in high school.)

Regarding summer AP work, ii agree it is awful. In my DDs AP world class, she had to take detailed notes on several chapters, to be handed in, write a couple papers and answer a long list of short-answer essay type questions over the summer. After they were handed in, the teacher informed them that because she has 75 students taking the class, she would only grade a couple of pre-determined questions, the rest were "for their own benefit." Never mind that none of that busy work is how my DD would approach the material.

But it is in no way related to a kid's ability to be successful in the class. In our district, the AP classes frequently assign summer work because they cannot get through the curriculum in the time allotted- our district often begins school in the second week in Sept, and the AP exams dates are the same for everyone, in May (which means there are usually 6 weeks of school left after the exam, which can be good or a complete waste, depending on the teacher.)

It's quite a ridiculous system but at least here, it is the best option available (the honors level is so low it is a joke, and the levels below that are not worth mentioning.) My DD detests it, and frequently speaks about dropping to honors level, but the (lack of) peer group would make her even more miserable.

The obsession is with grades. Purely grades. Not learning.

I am so distressed by this. Again, I have no problem whatsoever with high-level auditioned ensembles, but there should always also be a musical ensemble available where you do not have to "pass" to perform. Practice is great and can be required of a student (DD is required to practice and keep a log), but not allowing students to perform? Wow.

I did not realize that the dates of the school year would affect the AP testing. Thanks for sharing.

A few people on this thread have described the school district as "toxic". But the NYT article says that many Asian parents moved to the area for the schools. Clearly they do not think it is toxic. There are different visions about what education and childhood ought to be like -- how hard children should study and practice and how much competition there should be. My wife grew up in a country where children were ranked in each subject from 1st grade. This would horrify many Americans, but in her country they probably believed that such ranking motivated children and gave parents a clear picture of where their children stood.

Grades are the currency of the educational economy. The way in which valuation is determined.

Without grades, the educational value of students would be unknown and unknowable. Teachers would be unable to properly allocate their student resources in the educational marketplace and the schools would become academically unprofitable.

This would eventually lead to severe academic distortions of scarce student resources and entire school systems would collapse.