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    Joined: Feb 2012
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    An interesting theory that I hadn't seen before
    What Really Scares Helicopter Parents
    Quote
    Many teenagers -- and I include myself at that age -- do not quite have the emotional maturity and long-term planning skills for the high-stakes economic competition they find themselves engaged in. So their parents intervene, managing their lives so intensely that their child doesn’t have much opportunity to, well, act like a child instead of a miniature middle-aged accountant. Since the professional class can’t pass down its credentials, it passes down its ability to navigate the educational system that produces the credentials.
    It does ring true for me. Letting my DD drop out of the gifted program to go to the middle school she wanted to attend was way scarier than letting her ride city buses by herself, for example.

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    Absolutely.

    This is, on some level, a good argument for some acceleration, actually. The reason is that a certain degree of intervention beyond that expected for older peers is more acceptable.

    That is, nobody expected my 12yo to be driving herself to auditions, board meetings, etc. the way that they would have had she been 18 instead.

    The side benefit was that her executive function was still permitted to be twelve and not 17 or 18.

    My parents also lacked the credentials, and lacking them-- failed to understand some of what leads to high level credentialing in the first place. So when I was "invited" to join honor societies, etc. my parents just looked at the immediate costs and benefits, without really understanding how important those things were in terms of gatekeeping-- some of it informal, even, but that stuff is like being members of the right "club" when it comes time to network in college and after.

    We didn't make those mistakes. We knew that leadership positions, honor society memberships, etc. are the things that make a resume look "right" for the kinds of opportunities that lead to high level credentialing.

    As a child, DD didn't have the perspective to understand the ramifications of choosing to spend her free time on video gaming, versus community service. Now, we didn't deprive her of things that she truly wanted to do-- but we did offer advice regarding equally-desirable activities, when it was clear to us that one of them had a better long-term benefit.

    I consider that an extension of things like;

    "Sure, candy tastes better than Brussels sprouts and kale-- but I'm the parent, and I know that long-term, one of these is a better choice than the other. No matter how bright you are, you're still a child. Lacking life experience and full brain development, you're a hedonist who is going to choose the most pleasurable thing in the here-and-now rather than the most beneficial thing to yourself long-term. That's why you have me, and why I get veto power over a lot of ideas that seem really great to you. You're seven."



    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.
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    I'm a bit helicoptery. But I *think* I'm focusing on the areas that actually need my attention - I have to say I notice a lot of behaviors by other parents around me that really drive me nuts.
    Like drying and dressing kids after their swimming lessons, kids as old as 7 who have just swum multiple lengths of the pool with 4 different strokes so are obviously capable of dressing themselves but stand there like big lumpy puppets getting their arms and legs stuffed into their clothes.
    And like collecting their kids schoolbags, drink bottles, shoes for them after school, and carrying them for them.
    It's obviously just impatience because we're all too busy to stand around waiting for kids but I'd rather put in a few minutes now than be valeting my child forever because they don't know how to do anything.
    I try quite hard to give my DD8 her own appropriate life choices, like clothes, haircuts, room decor, extracurricular activities, and I think she does quite well. At 6 she decided to quit ballet and take up Girl Guides, which I was hesitant about but it turned out to be a great choice for her. She's currently eschewing French lessons in favor of indoor rock-climbing, which again I'm uncomfortable with but am trying not to be!
    The important decisions we'd certainly discuss with her but we'd probably make the final choice. Perhaps she's more sensible than me but all I can think of is that I made my choice of high school based on which school uniform I liked better *eyeroll*

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    Originally Posted by ElizabethN
    An interesting theory that I hadn't seen before
    What Really Scares Helicopter Parents
    Quote
    Many teenagers -- and I include myself at that age -- do not quite have the emotional maturity and long-term planning skills for the high-stakes economic competition they find themselves engaged in. So their parents intervene, managing their lives so intensely that their child doesn’t have much opportunity to, well, act like a child instead of a miniature middle-aged accountant. Since the professional class can’t pass down its credentials, it passes down its ability to navigate the educational system that produces the credentials.

    Add to that the shrinking-middle-class problem and widespread economic uncertainty, and suddenly it looks like rational behavior.

    Which is, of course, framed in the press largely as a pathology of women/mothers...

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    It strikes me as a bit ironic, given that being able to think on one's own, be creative in generating income and find internal motivation is likely to be increasingly important when the world you're going to be an adult in will likely be very different than the world today.

    That said, the article makes some good points. I rather suspect, though, that the kids who find the most lasting future success are not going to be the ones whose parents force them through the most largely meaningless school and activity hoops. Just my theory.

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    Originally Posted by DeeDee
    Add to that the shrinking-middle-class problem and widespread economic uncertainty, and suddenly it looks like rational behavior.

    Which is, of course, framed in the press largely as a pathology of women/mothers...


    Exactly, DeeDee. It really resonated for me, when I thought about what kind of stuff I was prepared to let DD try and what kind of stuff I wasn't.

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    Originally Posted by ConnectingDots
    That said, the article makes some good points. I rather suspect, though, that the kids who find the most lasting future success are not going to be the ones whose parents force them through the most largely meaningless school and activity hoops. Just my theory.

    Well, I think we're already seeing some the results of those sheltered upbringings, in the form of college student demands/desires for safe spaces, trigger warnings, and out-of-proportion reaction to Mariachi band Halloween costumes. Honestly, kids who've been raised by parents overzealously protect them from scary fairy tales and shield them from ideas that might make them feel bad aren't going to suddenly turn 18 and be able to handle the very large diversity of opinions they encounter at any random college. Why would they if they've been shielded their whole lives and made to believe that all strangers are dangerous and probably out to hurt them?

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    Originally Posted by ConnectingDots
    I rather suspect, though, that the kids who find the most lasting future success are not going to be the ones whose parents force them through the most largely meaningless school and activity hoops. Just my theory.

    I know some kids who were really pushed hard through hoops-- they were my HS classmates. Lots of them are neurologists etc. now. They seem happy with the deal they have.

    I don't think there is an easy answer here, but I am pretty sure that pointing fingers and blaming parents isn't a workable solution for society's ills.

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    Originally Posted by DeeDee
    Originally Posted by ConnectingDots
    I rather suspect, though, that the kids who find the most lasting future success are not going to be the ones whose parents force them through the most largely meaningless school and activity hoops. Just my theory.

    I know some kids who were really pushed hard through hoops-- they were my HS classmates. Lots of them are neurologists etc. now. They seem happy with the deal they have.

    I don't think there is an easy answer here, but I am pretty sure that pointing fingers and blaming parents isn't a workable solution for society's ills.

    Perhaps it works for some... or those for whom it works are those who are well suited for that sort of upbringing (high IQ, good internal motivation, enjoyment of reaching those kinds of goals). I didn't have anything approaching pushing and have been successful in part because I was allowed to follow my own development path. Anecdote of one. :-)

    It is complicated. Some of it is society's ills -- and you are right that blaming parents, and especially, as you pointed out earlier, making it a mommy blame thing, isn't fixing it (although it does sell). But as parents, sometimes we also need to be the ones stepping back and saying to society: is this really what's needed? Rather than mindlessly buying into the proverbial hamster wheel mentality that says a top college is the only route, for everyone.

    I'm fascinated by what I'm seeing with some friends who are homeschooling with a great deal of child-directed learning or sending their children to alternative types of schools. The children really are turning out to be amazing leaders who seem very balanced.

    Last edited by ConnectingDots; 12/02/15 07:32 AM.
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    Honestly - I have long since given up the idea that I could force/encourage/cajole my kids into doing anything they don't want to do. Exceptions being swimming lessons (because - safety) and music lessons - because it's a good idea and they have some talent there. Even with music I don't push the practicing - they do what they do, and still seem to be learning and getting something out of it.

    Other than that - it's not worth the battle - a big waste of time, money and good will all around to try to push them into a sport or activity they've decided they don't like.

    I have to say - I do help DS7 with changing after swim lessons. He has DCD and really would have a hard time doing it himself - especially when standing there shivering. Ditto with collecting his things from school at the end of the day. I'm sure he will eventually develop these skills - but it will take him longer than other kids.

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