Gifted Bulletin Board

Welcome to the Gifted Issues Discussion Forum.

We invite you to share your experiences and to post information about advocacy, research and other gifted education issues on this free public discussion forum.
CLICK HERE to Log In. Click here for the Board Rules.

Links


Learn about the Davidson Academy’s online campus for profoundly gifted students living anywhere in the U.S.

The Davidson Institute is a national nonprofit dedicated to supporting profoundly gifted students through the following programs:

  • Fellows Scholarship
  • Young Scholars
  • Davidson Academy
  • THINK Summer Institute
  • DITD FaceBook   DITD Twitter   DITD YouTube
    The Davidson Institute is on Facebook, Twitter and YouTube!

    How gifted-friendly is
    your state?

    Subscribe to the Davidson Institute's eNews-Update

    Who's Online
    1 registered (Anrix), 0 Guests and 64 Spiders online.
    Key: Admin, Global Mod, Mod
    Newest Members
    TEACHERMOM3.14, Drusillain, chinnny, Fast Words, LC001
    11242 Registered Users
    December
    Su M Tu W Th F Sa
    1 2 3
    4 5 6 7 8 9 10
    11 12 13 14 15 16 17
    18 19 20 21 22 23 24
    25 26 27 28 29 30 31
    Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >
    Topic Options
    #223728 - 10/13/15 09:02 AM Re: School Administrators as Politicians [Re: thx1138]
    eco21268 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/21/15
    Posts: 647
    Originally Posted By: thx1138
    I should add that parents may like to study basic negotiating skills before any discussions with school administration. One book I like is Secrets of Power Negotiating by Roger Dawson.

    And sometimes, there are those who come to the table draped in dysfunction, who refuse to hear anything that threatens their closest-held belief systems...

    I researched/studied/read everything I could about negotiation/advocacy and still made a monumental muck of my efforts for my son. Some systems are just rigged. My hunch is these are rarely rigged in favor of the children affected.

    Top
    #223731 - 10/13/15 09:30 AM Re: School Administrators as Politicians [Re: Cookie]
    eco21268 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/21/15
    Posts: 647
    Originally Posted By: Cookie
    That's funny because as far as I know indigo has never indicated his or her gender. I picture indigo as a he.

    I believe indigo is male. Or, perhaps, female.

    Top
    #223740 - 10/13/15 10:33 AM Re: School Administrators as Politicians [Re: thx1138]
    suevv Offline
    Member

    Registered: 08/10/12
    Posts: 381
    I'm almost definitely sure that indigo is a color. A lovely deep but pure blue - like the Marianas trench on our world map.

    I'm still trying Charmspeak on our public school administrators and teachers. "You a talented, dedicated professional, eager to take on the challenge that is my son's education." So far it's working a little bit. To be fair, it's because I think they actually might be talented, dedicated professionals. So I only have to Charmspeak the second half.

    HK said: "To an administrator, your child is likely impersonal-- not really a PERSON, so much as an idea, or a part of an idea."

    The first few times I met with the principal, I actually put a picture of DS on the table in front of us. Probably sort of annoying, and I think the principal might have been a bit offended at first. But honestly I think it helped.

    HK also said: "The tails of the distribution are problematic. They cost more. Period-- and if you meet their needs, you also have the problem that other parents will want to know why you aren't doing special anything for THEM and THEIR child."

    At base - this is why it's easier for administrators to serve kids on the other end of the bell curve from ours. Everybody gets the feel-good of helping a kid who needs it, and there are no Tiger parents clamoring for their kids to be classified as needing THAT sort of special ed.

    I actually feel for the teachers/administrators trying to deal with this special snow flake environment where parents are so horribly competitive with each other, using their kids as weapons. Ick. You couldn't pay me enough.

    And FYI - this is why I aim for sneaky, not very observable accommodations for DS: E.g., he gets regular breaks in the library, which I fully intend to transform to learning time with the math specialist, e.g. Or an opportunity to drop in to above grade level things going on, like special science or tinkering events. "No, no - that's not acceleration at all. Pay no attention, ye Tiger Parents. Nothing to see here." And oh yes, I'm busy, busy, busy supporting the library fund raising effort because I do want that librarian on my side!

    Bits and pieces that help in little ways that I hope add up to a decent chance for DS.

    Top
    #223745 - 10/13/15 10:47 AM Re: School Administrators as Politicians [Re: suevv]
    ashley Offline
    Member

    Registered: 03/26/12
    Posts: 639
    Originally Posted By: suevv

    And FYI - this is why I aim for sneaky, not very observable accommodations for DS: E.g., he gets regular breaks in the library, which I fully intend to transform to learning time with the math specialist, e.g. Or an opportunity to drop in to above grade level things going on, like special science or tinkering events. "No, no - that's not acceleration at all. Pay no attention, ye Tiger Parents. Nothing to see here." And oh yes, I'm busy, busy, busy supporting the library fund raising effort because I do want that librarian on my side!

    Bits and pieces that help in little ways that I hope add up to a decent chance for DS.




    suevv, this moved me a lot - because how much you care about getting your son an education appropriate for him shows. It also makes me sad, because why is the public education so terrible that it takes so much creativity and perseverance and diligence from a parent of gifted kids to get "something appropriate" for their kids (which is better than nothing at all)?

    Top
    #223747 - 10/13/15 10:53 AM Re: School Administrators as Politicians [Re: ashley]
    eco21268 Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/21/15
    Posts: 647
    Originally Posted By: ashley

    suevv, this moved me a lot - because how much you care about getting your son an education appropriate for him shows. It also makes me sad, because why is the public education so terrible that it takes so much creativity and perseverance and diligence from a parent of gifted kids to get "something appropriate" for their kids (which is better than nothing at all)?

    Moved me, too. Sad that we have to learn all of these back-door methods for something that should be straightforward. Even sadder for those kids whose parents can't/won't/don't know how to do this. smirk

    Top
    #223748 - 10/13/15 11:12 AM Re: School Administrators as Politicians [Re: suevv]
    ElizabethN Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/17/12
    Posts: 1390
    Loc: Seattle area
    Originally Posted By: suevv
    The first few times I met with the principal, I actually put a picture of DS on the table in front of us. Probably sort of annoying, and I think the principal might have been a bit offended at first. But honestly I think it helped.


    This is brilliant. I actually did something similar by suggesting that my DD actually start attending 504 meetings starting in 3rd grade. We used to do the first part of the meeting, then bring her in and talk to her about the plan and ask any questions that had come up during the discussion.

    Top
    #223756 - 10/13/15 12:39 PM Re: School Administrators as Politicians [Re: thx1138]
    Thomas Percy Offline
    Member

    Registered: 11/18/12
    Posts: 206
    Originally Posted By: thx1138
    I should add that parents may like to study basic negotiating skills before any discussions with school administration. One book I like is Secrets of Power Negotiating by Roger Dawson.

    Thomas, perhaps we have something to learn from China. Though education in Asia is often based on tests, that are based on memorization. Now that so many facts and data are a click away on the internet, I don't see much value in memorization, but rather on analysis. It could be said though that the established power structure doesn't want people thinking too much.


    This is from one of my favorite bloggers on education.
    http://oilf.blogspot.com/2015/04/the-stereotype-of-rote-learning-in-east.html

    I don't know about if this is true for all subjects. I can tell you school math in China is a lot less rote than the US ever was.

    Top
    #223793 - 10/13/15 05:04 PM Re: School Administrators as Politicians [Re: thx1138]
    AvoCado Offline
    Member

    Registered: 04/11/13
    Posts: 202
    This thread is depressing. I'm just gearing up for a big advocacy push but it's so easy to slip back into giving up all hope frown

    Top
    #223815 - 10/13/15 09:22 PM Re: School Administrators as Politicians [Re: thx1138]
    HowlerKarma Offline
    Member

    Registered: 02/05/11
    Posts: 5181
    AvoCado, I would NOT assume that what you see posted on this forum in terms of horror stories is necessarily typical for parents advocating for their children.

    Based on my other work over the years as a parent advocate and support group administrator, what gets POSTED in message board support groups tends to be between the 80th and ~98th percentile in terms of advocacy experiences. Why not the 99th? Well, because in those cases THEIR ATTORNEY has advised them to shut up and behave while the administrative and civil remedies play out, which includes social media silence.

    Occasionally, the rare 1st to 5th percentile story shows up, where a parent basically lands in Nirvana. The rest of us warmly offer congratulations while secretly wondering if they are lying... whistle

    Most parents don't get all of what they'd like, but mostly, it works tolerably well, and the people they are working with are also mostly tolerably decent and hard-working.

    Our own advocacy journey was not particularly difficult, in spite of having a child that fit-- well, nowhere, actually. Schools were willing to work with us right up to the very bleeding edge of what seemed POSSIBLE-- and frankly, they'd have done more than we thought was wise/prudent in terms of acceleration, even. I had ONE set of very tense meetings in my DD's 9 years as a public school student, and that was disability-related, not GT-related.

    DD has pretty out there needs as a human being and student. In some ways, because her second 'e' isn't related to learning, it's easier-- and in some ways, harder, because it is very much unrelated, as a learning package.

    Still-- they did it. Of the dozens of administrators I encountered in that nine years-- and in the decades of experience prior to them, let me add-- I encountered just TWO truly Bad, Bad Apples. By that, I mean people who genuinely should NOT have been employed in that capacity, morally, ethically, or otherwise.

    One of them was the principal when my DD was a sixth grader-- the one that instructed her teacher to stop talking to her or me in DECEMBER of that year. Yes, that was pretty bad, admittedly. But everyone did quite the happy dance the next year when he wasn't invited back. Ahem. Life went on.









    _________________________
    Schrödinger's cat walks into a bar. And doesn't.

    Top
    #223824 - 10/14/15 04:28 AM Re: School Administrators as Politicians [Re: thx1138]
    Cookie Offline
    Member

    Registered: 05/28/14
    Posts: 599
    And some situations of advocacy are this path....

    Child needs x (subject acceleration in math), principal says no in meeting, parent doesn't takeno for an answer and keeps advocating, district gt coordinator says yes he does figure it out, figuring it out takes a while, gt coordinator says heck just whole grade skip him, principal gives up and says okay. Grade skip goes fantastic. Principal goes to principal meeting where gt coordinator is speaking about acceleration success stories to principals. No names are used but my son is one of the examples. Principal comes back to school and tells me about meeting and has totally forgotten that he was the naysayer the whole way. Acts like the skip was his idea. Totally ticking credit for what a good idea that was Parent bemused and hopes that future kids have an easier time.

    Top
    Page 2 of 3 < 1 2 3 >


    Moderator:  M-Moderator, Mark D. 
    Recent Posts
    College debt, default, ROI
    by indigo
    12/07/22 08:37 AM
    Out of level/early SAT
    by Vansh
    12/02/22 11:23 AM
    Aging
    by indigo
    12/01/22 01:33 PM
    WIAT-III outperforming WISC-V: 2e child
    by aeh
    11/30/22 08:17 PM
    The ultimate brag thread
    by Eagle Mum
    11/30/22 01:14 AM
    Davidson Institute Twitter