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    Joined: Feb 2014
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    Honestly, my experience is that it all boils down to money.

    My state has some loose (very loose) guidelines in that each school system gets to set their own bar for giftedness. There is no rubric that everyone uses. They can use whichever tests they want (poor district will cheap out and not do extensive testing that costs them money) and richer districts with populations that might be chock full of engineers will have a higher bar for test scores because of limited space in a classroom.

    We literally moved from one district that had an 85% score on a Stanford test that only offered pull-outs to one that had a 96% requirement that has a TAG teaching team. The other school just didn't have the money. And VA does provide some state funding for gifted programs along with other funding they provide that's earmarked for certain things (like textbooks, for example).

    Identifying gifted kids earlier than 3rd grade increases the costs. It's easier for schools to pretend they don't exist or need special services.

    By the way, I did find an Otis-Lennon that was done by that school on my now 14 year old in Kindergarten. Off the charts! But, they did not offer services til 3rd grade and they say they tested her again then and she did not get identified (but could not provide me a copy of those tests). She eventually got identified much later in 7th grade after we pushed. But in all honesty, they would not have done much, if anything, for her in elementary anyway.

    I don't know why schools don't at least ability group at the very least. Meet everyone where they are and allow them to move around as necessary.

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    Originally Posted by 2GiftedKids
    Honestly, my experience is that it all boils down to money.

    My state has some loose (very loose) guidelines in that each school system gets to set their own bar for giftedness. There is no rubric that everyone uses. They can use whichever tests they want (poor district will cheap out and not do extensive testing that costs them money) and richer districts with populations that might be chock full of engineers will have a higher bar for test scores because of limited space in a classroom.

    We literally moved from one district that had an 85% score on a Stanford test that only offered pull-outs to one that had a 96% requirement that has a TAG teaching team. The other school just didn't have the money. And VA does provide some state funding for gifted programs along with other funding they provide that's earmarked for certain things (like textbooks, for example).

    Identifying gifted kids earlier than 3rd grade increases the costs. It's easier for schools to pretend they don't exist or need special services.

    By the way, I did find an Otis-Lennon that was done by that school on my now 14 year old in Kindergarten. Off the charts! But, they did not offer services til 3rd grade and they say they tested her again then and she did not get identified (but could not provide me a copy of those tests). She eventually got identified much later in 7th grade after we pushed. But in all honesty, they would not have done much, if anything, for her in elementary anyway.

    I don't know why schools don't at least ability group at the very least. Meet everyone where they are and allow them to move around as necessary.

    Some schools do ability group in early elementary to try and make up for this fact. Or at least they did when my kids were in elementary. This is mostly to benefit the struggling students. In the early grades (K-2nd) the kids were grouped in reading & math groups where they received smaller group attention. What this generally meant was the most advanced group would get some "enrichment" work while the struggling kids got extra time with the teacher. Sometimes a parent volunteer would work with the advanced kids. But the advanced students were still supposed to finish the regular work it was just assumed they would do so quickly. And the enrichment work wasn't the same as working a grade or two ahead.

    Our district while it has no formal gifted program till 4th grade when my DS was in early elementary did offer gifted clusters. It even stated this on the districts gifted students page. There was no formal testing for these clusters and this group was more highly performing cluster than gifted per say.

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    Third grade would have been too late for both of my kids. But I definitely have seen some kids who were difficult to pinpoint as gifted in k/1 but look gifted to me now. On the flip side, I know some kids who tested gifted in K who do NOT appear gifted to me at the present time. I think this is really a hard question.

    One of my "things" with giftedness, though, is that I would like to see all students screened.

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    Originally Posted by ultramarina
    Third grade would have been too late for both of my kids. But I definitely have seen some kids who were difficult to pinpoint as gifted in k/1 but look gifted to me now. On the flip side, I know some kids who tested gifted in K who do NOT appear gifted to me at the present time. I think this is really a hard question.

    One of my "things" with giftedness, though, is that I would like to see all students screened.

    I agree with screening all kids. Maybe some internet billionaire could be recruited to fund a pilot project in a school district to screen all kids at age 4 and 6 or something like that. I don't know if there is an instrument that is cheaper to administer than the full WPPSI-IV (which cost of the better part of $1k to do - totally worth it by the way).

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    For screening purposes, there are a few brief intelligence measures that are valid for four-year-olds, such as the RIAS, WRIT, and KBIT2. It would certainly be cheaper than the WPPSI-IV or SBV, but not by enough to make it feasible as universal screening. The instruments themselves are about a quarter the price of one of the comprehensives, while the cost in examiner time would be about 1/3 to 1/2.

    Currently, public schools are mandated to do universal screening with K students to identify disabilities. One of the best instruments for that is the DIAL4, which does generate standard scores/percentiles in the Big 5 developmental areas from age 2-6 to age 5-11. Granted, it is designed mainly to pick up the low end of the distribution, but it wouldn't be unreasonable to use the concepts and language modules as pre-screeners for the high end, just as they currently are used as pre-screeners for the low end. Every district owns a system similar to this (although not all are equal in quality), and invests 30-45 minutes per entering kindergartner in administering it. The data are already there. Someone just needs to catalog and act on them.


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    Originally Posted by aeh
    For screening purposes, there are a few brief intelligence measures that are valid for four-year-olds, such as the RIAS, WRIT, and KBIT2. It would certainly be cheaper than the WPPSI-IV or SBV, but not by enough to make it feasible as universal screening. The instruments themselves are about a quarter the price of one of the comprehensives, while the cost in examiner time would be about 1/3 to 1/2.
    IQ is positively correlated with academic achievement. Our elementary school, like many others, does not give letter grades, but report cards do have marks from 1 to 4 in reading, math, and other subjects. A composite IQ prediction based on "brief intelligence measures" and grades could be created. It will miss high IQ children who are getting bad grades for some reason, but that is better than missing all gifted children in grades 1 and 2 by not screening them.

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    See page four of this document from a NC school district. They use the DIAL4 and an early literacy assessment as a universal screening instrument for GT/AIG services for every entering kindergartner.

    http://www.davie.k12.nc.us/files/2013/7209/9872/2013-16_final_aig_plan_linked.pdf

    It can be done.

    ETA: Actually, they also don't formally ID GT until 3rd grade, but they do flag K-2 students as GT "candidates".

    Last edited by aeh; 10/12/15 09:38 AM.

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    Originally Posted by cmguy
    I agree with screening all kids. Maybe some internet billionaire could be recruited to fund a pilot project in a school district to screen all kids at age 4 and 6 or something like that. I don't know if there is an instrument that is cheaper to administer than the full WPPSI-IV (which cost of the better part of $1k to do - totally worth it by the way).


    The district we previously listed in did start screening all 1st graders a few years ago. They used the CoGAT and the ITBS. They also let kids apply to be tested each subsequent year. They also have an exceptionally high bar (must hit 99% with the test one grade up on both tests). Because of the high bar and the tests chosen, most gifted kids still don't get served there.

    Last edited by Aufilia; 10/17/15 09:36 PM.
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    I think the bar is a little lower now, Aufilia (if I'm remembering your district correctly). But the 1st and 2nd graders aren't served in the full-time program - they are identified, but the regular classroom teachers are told to differentiate for them.

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    My district uses RIAS (meh) and tests in K (good), but you have to be identified as a testing candidate first through complex and (IMO) biased means (bad).

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