Gifted Issues Discussion homepage Forums Identification, Testing & Assessment Really need some advice, Kindergartener

hi thank you, i have heard of Gifted Development Center and i just last week sent them a packet of his work (for lack of a better approach, i wasn't sure how to initiate the conversation), but i have not heard of PG so i will look that up.

hopefully everyone who has taken time out of their day to reply to my post is also seeing my replies. I've replied to each person but it isn't showing up in the feed and I'd hate for people to think that after taking time to reply to me that i was in turn ignoring their generosity. THANK YOU to each person who has replied, every reply has been helpful and insightful and greatly appreciated.

I'm going to repeat a part of a response i made earlier to Blackcat because i'm not sure if all of my replies are being seen, so i apologise in advance if your getting this twice Backcat.

i did not think that he was twice exceptional for a few reason 1. he has always been somewhat delayed in speech, since he was little, but he always did continue to develop and when we'd asked his pediatrician about it he said that our sone has a big vocabulary its just not the kids of word that contribute to conversation (he was probably two at the time. the dr. said that kids don't get points for some words and not for other and that our son has tons of identifiers. its hard to have a conversation with only identifiers though. 2. our son also has had two older cousins that followed a similar developmental pattern i.e. late speech development but early signs of giftedness. one of whom was misdiagnosed as an autistic and in third grade they said he'd "grown out of it" his other cousin was not diagnosed with anything but eventually also evened out with her peers in communication. both kids are highly intelligent and probably gifted but attend regular school. 3. we'd never heard of twice exceptional, we thought yes, his speech is delayed but holly molly look how smart he is... he'll eventually catch up in the areas he's lagging in - he's just "developing unevenly" which was another thing we were being told.

so now I don't know, i'm wondering. my concern is that my choices are to bring him to a tester that specializes in 2E so that he gets the kid of testing that is appropriate for a potentially gifted child with speech delays and possibly by doing so shine a spot light on his idiosyncrasies and basically ask for a diagnosis that i don't think is really fitting at this time, based on his cousins developing out of this stage. OR taking him to a tester that doesn't specialize in 2Es and run the risk of him being tested with out the consideration of his speech delay. Any advice on those two concerns??

before this post id not even considered having him tested again, i didn't even know there were different kinds of tests. i thought that the school we took him to to be tested last year was the end of the conversation and that, the tests said he's not gifted. i was just left wondering - well if he's not gifted why is he doing all of these things? and it was very confusing. so thanks again to everyone who's helping shed some light on this for us.

We've had at least a couple of members whose DS is mathematically talented/gifted and their overall IQ did not match their math achievement.

I also read a blog post by a mother of a talented young violinist who was rather puzzled by the lower-than-expecred results.

My speculation is that some children can be very talented in one or two areas but not necessarily perform well on standard IQ tests. IMO, that doesn't make them less gifted or talented in their areas of strength.

thanks Mana,
I've read else where that the majority of gifted kids are linguistically gifted and that mathematically gifted kids are not as common. do you think thats part of it? like maybe the tests are geared toward to majority? to be fare when he tested last year he'd never even done small math on paper - he's gone from point A to 5th grade math all in about 9 months. but if he is gifted now shouldn't he have been gifted then? and if he's doing fifth grade math in kindergarten doesn't he have to be gifted? its confusing.

If he is a kindergartener eagerly reading at or above a second grade level and doing math at or above a 5th grade level, it is highly likely he is gifted. Send a letter requesting in writing all testing results from that charter school.

It is possible he had an off day or didn't connect with the tester. It is possible he has 2E issues. It is possible that his cousins also had 2E issues and developed a way to compensate for them by 3rd grade.

Is English his 1st language? That may have an impact too.

If they administered an oral test that may not have accurately assessed his full potential given that you say he can read fluently.

I understand you have been working with a speech pathologist. Has his hearing been checked by a professional?

Also, are you sure he was not admitted due to test results?

Lack of admission could be for any number of reasons... Not enough openings for all eligible candidates, etc.

All our charters are lottery based (if there are requirements...not all have requirements other than residing in district... first you meet requirements then enter lottery pool).

Our arts magnet was completely audition based (so selection was based on a rubric that included teacher recs, previous grades, attendance, essay written while you waited for your audition, audition, and interview).

What exactly is he doing now in terms of speech? Does he answer questions like "Tell me something you enjoyed aobut school today?" Does he ask you questions? How many words can he put together into a sentence? Is his speech mostly grammatically correct? You can look up developmental milestones on this site: http://www.pbs.org/parents/child-development/

You can click on language and his age.

I think it is common for many total normal kids to be late talkers, but from what I have read, if a child is still having difficulties in kindergarten, it's less likely they are just going to "grow out of it."


DS had the huge gap between non-verbal ability and verbal ability at age 3, and there was still a gap on the most recent testing (cogat) but he was in the superior range (I think) in both verbal and non-verbal. The bigger the discrepancy, the more likely there is a 2e issue. I do think that people can be mathematically gifted and not gifted (or as gifted) in other areas, but it's a matter of degree whether it's normal or not. FWIW our district now requires kids to be gifted in both verbal and mathematical ability (they don't seem to care about non-verbal), because those are the kids that do the best in school gifted programs (doesn't mean they are more gifted, they are just more likely to be the high achievers in terms of school).

SAHM - no i'm not entirely sure he wasn't admitted because of scores but it think so. they didn't say he wasn't going to be admitted, they said - he doesn't qualify to attend. English is his first language and the only language spoken in our house but since he was little he's been extremely interested in other languages. he'll ask to watch shows in other languages and learned to count i several languages and learned to read and write in i think 5 languages for numbers. it was for sure an oral test, but i do believe he would not have voluntarily engaged with the test giver. a writer test would have been more his speed. unfortunately at the time i didn't even know there were different kinds of test, i'm only just learning that now. His hearing was checked when he was an infant (like 2 days old) does that kind of thing need to be checked again as he gets older?

Blackcat,
i'm gonna check out that link for milestones but the first few questions you asked - he speaks in full sentences and asks and answers questions. he's less likely to engage though and isn't like to initiate very much conversation and he sounds babyish when he talks. its hard to explain. i'm looking into a possibility of getting him evaluated to see of there is a 2E component - now, after reading through all your guy's responses. I worry though that taking him in for an email is ASKING for a diagnosis. honestly, really didn't think so but now I'm wondering.

i want to understand what you were saying about the kids who are mathematically gifted though and i don't know if i do yet. so, he might be advanced in math but not be a gifted child? if theres a difference i thinks it important information for us to have because we don't want to spin our wheel headed in the wrong direction. to our way of thinking - because he's doing 5 and some 6th grade math - he MUST be gifted, but if that isn't the case or at least potentially not the case then it would kind of clear some things up for us. we've been very confused about what he can do Vs. how the tested he did last year went.

there is other components though - the reading, and language arts (on paper at least) he's advanced. reading about 2nd grade or maybe somewhere between 2nd and 3rd (he can read to learn and read instructions and follow them correctly) - hand writing and language arts, he works from 1st grade material but we do some stuff that i think qualifies as second grade. like alphabetizing, nouns, verbs stuff like that.

its an odd juxtaposition between who you see when you first meet him and what he's able to do with books, paper and pencils.

heres some examples of the math he'll do this week.
adding, subtracting, multiplying and dividing fractions with borrowing and mixed numbers
subtraction with multiple borrows like...
4000
-3892
3 digit x 3 digit multiplication with carrying
long division with decimals
he does big multiplication his head like 8 x 320, you can ask him how many seconds are in 12 minutes or something like that.
he does minor pre pre algebra like 5y-3=12 y=
area and perimeter
order of operation
roman numeral into the tens of thousands
prime vs composites and prime factors (loves prime numbers, don't ask me why, i don't get them at all)

bunches and bunches, i could keep listing stuff but i think thats probably a good grouping of examples. He's extremely fixated on math and numbers and value, it takes on a very wide and also in-depth scope.